11 years for leaking a few tracks
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I'm surprised there hasn't been more chatter about the American kids who are facing 11 years in jail for posting "portions" of a Ryan Adams album to a fan messageboard, ahead of the record release. It's not really very different from what mp3bloggers do on a regular basis - heck, looking back to last August and September there are mp3bloggers who did pretty much exactly the same thing:
http://moroccanrole.blogspot.com/2005/08/ryan-adams-jacksonville-city-nights_31.html
http://toofrunner.blogspot.com/2005/09/jacksonville-city-nights.html
While I know some of you don't post uncleared advances, I wonder about the implications of these charges for American mp3bloggers in general... Have any of you spoken to a lawyer about whether it's a case that could be won? Because otherwise I wonder whether this will (or perhaps ought to have) a chilling effect... -
not to mention those of us who posted multiple tracks from 29
i'd like to see Ryan speak out about this, because I KNOW he doesn't give a shit. -
Sorry, one of those blog links is wrong. here:
http://moroccanrole.blogspot.com/2005/08/ryan-adams-jacksonville-city-nights.html -
we did discuss it a bit: http://elbo.ws/vanilla/comments.php?DiscussionID=132&page=1#Item_13
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I agree, that is a bit chilling. I don't plan on changing anything though -- I usually post two tracks at most from the same artist, and the one or two times a label wanted it down, they e-mailed me, I took it down, they thanked me, and that was the end of it.
it's a shame though. -
that's very sad. but there are other well-deserving bands that deserve to have exposure and others are being sore losers about it. their loss.
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Chilling? Yes.
Universal Group is a bastard, but they're obviously acting well within their legal boundaries. I'm curious as to the fact that the tracks were posted on a fan-run message board instead of an mp3 blog. Probably no legal difference, but still.
Again, it's a case of posting non-approved way-advance leaks from a pretty big name on a really big imprint, which is a big-fat no no, especially on a blog. It pays off to do some research (!) before posting tracks, to see where the boutique label leads.
Again, the fact that an artist "doesn't give a shit" means absolutely nothing here. Once the deal is done, it's out of his hands. -
Marathonpacks: You are right in that the artist's opinion is rather futile here as the case is now in the hands of federal authorities.
On the flip side, it is always nice to know that the artist you adore has a human face and is able to say something when things are unjust or if he disagrees with what is going on. And if he agrees with this, well, I would like to know too. Not saying anything about it is just too easy of a way out of such an important discussion. Ryan Adams need to make a statement about this, whether for or against.
While 11 years is split among the two of them, I am sure there are many other crimes much more harmful to the social fabric that one could commit and get less time for. And that's the real problem. -
they are only facing 11 years right? Whats a the realistic sentance?
I'd never post pre-release tracks from such a massive label, but I feel a bit safer in the UK, I haven't been emailed to remove any tracks from the site yet... -
It seems hard to tell from the recent articles. Some say that they face upto 11 years each and some say it's up to 11 years combined for the two of them.
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I start to wonder if it is all a big fat coporate ploy to sell more albums ie more exposure. Where do the leaks come from anyways? Maybe, the corporate labels are purposely leaking the tracks, making noise about it when innocent folks post em up, and then ultimately getting more exposure and selling more albums. When BIG MONEY is involved some of the ethical rules of business tend to take the back seat...
Ah, shite, maybe I am just paranoid... -
it's definitely worrisome, especially because even if you are more careful about what you post going forward, they could still get you for what you posted three months ago.
What's most annoying about this story to me is that they could/should go after these blogs with full album post if they're going to do anything. For example:
Regnyouth.com and many of the links on his sidebar (interestingly I confronted this guy about posting full albums and he said it was fine...now I see he's hiding the .rar files on the third page as you click "more" on each of his posts. It really bugs me that these two guys were singled out and others get off with real theft. -
yeh I removed regnyouth from my sidebar a few weeks ago
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Right now I work under the system of "if I get mailed the cd...that's implied consent to post 1 song." I'm going to be adding something to that extent on my website under the "how to send Matt a cd" section.
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the story behind the leak of the ryan tracks, according to my friend who is peripherally involved, is that a guy at Universal gave the album to his son, who sent it to a couple friends, who passed it on to the guys who leaked the tracks.
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that's my system as well matt. if i get a cd (whether i buy it, get it from the label for free, etc.), UNLESS THEY TELL ME NOT TO, i will at least post a track. or link to a free MP3 from it.
and yeah, full-album blogs are not fun. -
Eleven years is about how much you get for felony gun posession in the state of Florida. Crazy.
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i dont think they'll get 11 years or even 5 and half years each.
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Optimistically, they'll get probation, no prison time. I mean, I assume if they're found guilty, the sentencing will go to a jury and a jury will be lenient. But I was just reading an article about the case and these prosecutors in Tennessee sound really tenacious--they want set a precedent. Even if this is an extremely minor crime in the area of intellectual property theft (compared to the big stuff like the CD/DVD piracy that goes on in Asia).
This could conceivably become the new "war on drugs," with people receiving multi-year sentences for tiny offenses like posting an mp3. -
Yeah, probably not, but still.
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subquestion: Is anyone going to post the new Ghostface now? Because it's awesome.
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i'll wait until the release date.
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That's insane, but it was bound to happen. Someday soon, an MP3 blogger is going to serve major time, because some asshole wants to set a precedent.
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this whole thing is just so overwhelming. 11 years? christ. that's just plain ridiculous.
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So...in terms of the law, how do you think this will effect mp3 blogs?
This is from a 2005 Boston Globe article:
"Many bloggers have received ''cease and desist" letters from record labels asking them to take down specific tracks. And when the International Federation of Phonographic Industries (IFPI) complained to the Internet host of one popular blog, Moistworks, a group of audiobloggers discussed drawing up a code of conduct.
That charter never materialized, says Wang of Soul Sides. ''But there has been an attempt to develop standards"...
So, do you think there ARE standards these days? Should some be drawn up officially, just to make sure bloggers aren't stepping on the music industry's toes? -
I've been involved in several rounds of talk of "standards", but it's all a moot point because people simply disagree, and it's not like we can enforce those standards or anything.
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let's be honest, guys, posting anything from an RIAA release is illegal.
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Uh, posting anything that's not cleared is illegal. The RIAA has nothing to do with it.
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Well right, but Barsuk Records isn't going to file a lawsuit if I post the new Starlight Mints. That's what I was trying to say.
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Are you sure? Rock Action sent lawyers to my ISP...
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Sean, wow I had no idea. Maybe we all need to start being more careful...
On the subject of Ryan, he allows taping of his live shows. At said live shows, he plays new songs. Last May, you could download - for free, and completely legally through www.etree.org - live performances of several of the songs that would appear four months later on Jacksonville City Nights. Makes Lost Highway look pretty hypocritical to me. -
The only safe bet is to adopt a policy of getting permission from the artist or label. That's been my policy from day one, and I've only had one take-down request (because the artist didn't have permission from the label), and zero legal threats.
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http://theindieconnection.blogsome.com/2006/04/11/req-editors-the-black-room/#comments
i guess, maybe this site was mentioned on here before but it sorta bugged me the wrong way i guess.
on one post, he writes something saying 93 some people have downloaded the album but he hasnt gotten any comments yet. I respond saying he hasnt contributed anything to the album no actual opinions on the music, why should they? does he think these people are his friends? he is allowing himself to be used and he doesnt even know it. deep inside, it makes me sad for that fact. -
his disclaimer is rather ridiculous...
"All music posted here is for a 24 hour testing period. It is not my responsibility to make sure that you follow these rules, it is your own. I will not be held accountable. Guys..I'm doing this to try and support the artists and to spread good music around."
I honestly think sites like this, and the other ones putting up full albums, will be the end of music blogs in the long run. I mean, he has the whole Built to Spill album up for download before it's even released. That bothers me on many levels. -
what an idiot.
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agreed.
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I third that.
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I just went to his site and tore him a new one.
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Good job.
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yay!
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From The Indie Connection Comment; RE: Wendy Williams previous comment:
"Well, well,well, Mrs. (â€I work for a company that does promotion for indie artists…blah…blah…blah….)Wendy – SCREW YOU! Being that you’re such a self-anointed big-shot workin’ in the music biz doin’ promotion for indie artists, I’m sure that you know everything about music – except how to enjoy it. You’re trite holier-than-thou platitudes are nothing more than a shtick that merely regurgitates the propaganda lines of record companies. The comments that david posted from Jeff Tweedy are emblematic of how misguided and wrong your snide remarks and opinions are.
REAL artists don’t create their music for financial compensation; they do it because they LOVE music and need to express themselves in artistic ways – financial compensation is secondary for all REAL musicians in creating their art. Furthermore, most artists realistically know that all TRUE fans of their music are gonna go out and buy the CDs, order t-shirts and go to their shows because digital downloads are an incomplete package for the real music fan – there’s no liner notes, cover art, ect. Getting music over the internet is merely a means for TRUE music fans to check out cds before they drop $15 bucks on em’ and to expose themselves to new artists that they might not have heard otherwise.
Secondly, your comment about “assholes†who post albums that “cut sales to the artists†is a bunch of bullshit. Why do think that the corporate-produced-garbage of the greedy major labels is going the way of the dinosaurs while indie labels are selling more and more records every year and indie artists have even began to permeate into “mainstream†culture (The popularity of the music on the O.C. is one example that readily comes to mind)? This increasing “popularity†of indie music is largely due to the posting of music online and exposing people to real music alternatives instead of having mass-produced-corporate-garbage-forced fed down their throats through Clear Channel and Payola. Look at how popular Clap Your Hands and Say exploded in popularity because of people posting their album!
Do you ever see the artists suing people that post music online? I don’t think so – they are glad that their music is reaching a wider audience and they know that all REAL fans who LOVE music are gonna buy their albums and go to the shows when they like their music. It’s only greedy corporate-record-exec.-pigs and people like Mrs. “I work for a company that does promotion for indie artists†Wendy that are responsible for the lawsuits – people who only care about the bottom line and making money. These people don’t enjoy music or go to the shows – to them the music that is SO important to so many of us is nothing more than a commodity that they can sell, all while ripping off the artists and the fans so that they can afford summer homes, sports cars and swank apartments in NYC. These fuckin’ hypocrites MAKE ME SICK. "
Sounds like you made some friends over there, eh? -
"Clap Your Hands and Say Yeah"
"The O.C."
the lolz have been brought -
I also alerted Editors management, so I expect we'll see that post come down shortly.
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"the lolz have been brought"
oh they certainly have dave. i'm still laughing. heh. -
"the lolz have been brought" - I'm appropriating that phrase NOW.
Anyhow, it's nice to see some people can maintain such delightfully utopian and juvenile worldviews. -
that phrase is going on my sidebar.
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that phrase is going to be my next entry title
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that phrase is going to be tatooed on my forehead
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That phrase is going to be tatooed on my children's foreheads
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That also sounds like a pretty badass name for a new music blog.
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Some kind of blog anyhow, yeah.
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