hype machine change to only listing top 100 blogs as default
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why does this have to be about popularity?
it just occurred to me that everyone might be misinterpreting things a bit. i don't think it's about popularity. i think it needs to be framed in more net-based terms. as an SEO/SMM guy, i would view this more as "trust" than popularity. blogs with higher delicious and technorati ratings means more people "trust" them, and have given a vote of trust with a link/bookmark.
granted, this might be splitting hairs. but considering the fact that we rarely ever post particularly popular tracks (though it does happen at times), and our technorati and delicious numbers are likely enough to get us into the top 100 means that it's more about having the most popular tracks.
but like i said, i like J HoaS's idea. -
Posted by: buzzgrinderalso, allen, are you talking about hits, visits, or uniques? and are those numbers from hypem, elbo.ws, or both? just curious, because those things could mean a big difference. if that number is visits per day from hypem alone, then i can understand why this might be a big deal. gauging things based on what i get from elbo.ws daily, then elbo.ws alexa/technorati/blah blah metrics, that seems like a huge difference from how much traffic we get. then again, i know habits and visit are different when comparing the two (especially since elbo.ws is schewed more toward news and mp3 aggregating and hype seems more just for mp3s), but still. if i'm missing out on something that sweet, i should start emailing anthony and the folks about getting on hype machine daily instead of every few months.
My analytics crapped out. 600 hits, not uniques. Obviously a more sizable number of my traffic comes from Hypem but when losing the front page status on my posts temporarily it was around 600. I can't pull out those stats (I wish I could) on that specific time period (like of the 600 hits if it decreased both Elbo.ws and Hypem), but a more sizable portion comes from Hypem.
So a fair estimate would be somewhere between 300-400 hits. It also depends on the number of posts you have, so on any given day it's 2-3. Per post you could lose anywhere from 150-200 not being on the front page. Which doesn't sound all that unreasonable. If Hypem went down right now, a lot of my traffic would evaporate. I don't even post leaks, remixes and covers.... -
First of all if the rankings aren't accurate the whole discussion is moot. And the rankings aren't accurate
For instance, I like Destination: OUT. But there is no way that a blog about way-out free jazz has technorati score of 40,257 (about 25,000 more than Stereogum). Compare that number with their rather mundane score on Delicious (225) and it seems that something's screwed up.
Now, I don't want them removed. It's ironic that they're just the type of thing that deserves to be in the top 100. But something's up with that score. And I'm guessing the whole list is flawed.
So tighten up the list. Make it work. And make it a quality list that encompassed the top 250 blogs and you've got it.
More Examples:
popbytes - Technorati score of 20,000 and not an mp3 to be found on the whole first page of the site!!!
grandgood - Technoirati of 5399 and not an mpe in sight -
Basically newer blogs will feel it the most - front page is always responsible for a spike in traffic...always. Everybody knows when Hype has a glitch and sticks the same tracks on the front page for an extended period, and if you are one of the posts on that front page - you are a winner.
The Top 100 blogs normally would have been around longer, thus they are getting more hits from searches as they have a larger library to be searched, they are not as dependent on "Front Page" hits. But on a good day, having good front page traffic from Hype can account for a lot of my hits as I have less of a back catalogue for searches to find me (but I will get there!!). I guess the blogs that post multiple times per day in order to hit the front page more often are going to be a bit worked up as well!!
**edit - I completely agree with S:I above as well - those are some serious scores!! -
whooooaaahhh!
donewaiting is in the top 100
if you look at our list of mp3, you will probably know half of the bands: http://hypem.com/#/list/1596
i mean we have cursive and los campesinos and jason isbell, but we have more local, hip hop, weird noodley stuff. even the remixes we've posted are from local kids just starting out.
we get a bit of traffic from hype machine. not a lot where i ever thought it moved the needle. i love (heart) being a part of it, but if it went away, donewaiting would exist just fine without it. i actually think at this point i get more traffic from twitter.
we've been around for 6 years, so that helps. but we're not posting kanye songs or radiohead leaks. i mean... if you are judging your traffic trends based on what hypem is bringing in then i guess this is gonna be an issue for you. if you're checking traffic every day, etc etc, this sort of stuff is gonna kill you.
think longterm baby
with that said, i'm happy to see the other changes the hype machine did too. that new player on the bottom is sweet. -
I don't really post too much on these boards, I usually just end up reading what you guys say because 99.9% of the time you speak for me. However I figure this thread is as good as any to share some input. For a blog like mine hypem can make all the difference. One song on it can help give me tons of traffic exposing my site to different people who may not have found it without hypem. For a new blog like wawstsf it is so hard to get readers/known. Unless you were one of the original taste makers you almost don't stand a chance out there. There are so many blogs out there that I am probably just another statistic at this point. Unless you post a leak or a risky major label song you are not going to get much traffic. So even with having all blogs get a shot at the front page, its hard to get noticed. If it is only the top 100 blogs its pretty much a dead end for most new guys.
My other thought was towards the top 100 blog list formula. I do agree that technorati is a nice way to sort the blogs, but i am not so sure about Del.icio.us. I feel like that site isn't used by much people in general, at least not enough in the realm of music bloggers. I don't know how it would be done but there should be a way to make a top 100 blog list that has to do with hypem. For instance track how many clicks a post gets on average for a blog on hypem, or something like that has to do with quality of posts. Another thing is (and i know this might be a lot to ask but to get rid of the blogs that have been inactive that are taking up spots on the top list. If a blog isn't active for a half a year or something it is not fair to take a spot of a hard working blogger who has been proving him/herself for a year straight.
These points have been touched on by most of the other people but they are pretty much spot on. It's a great site anthoney and I don't wanna come off as ungrateful. Rather I just wanted to tell you what I think would work better for all the parties involved. -
Buzz, I stand corrected! And yes, you get the "more" baby! Yay for metalsucks!
But seriously, here's a thought, from my wife as we discussed the issue today. I know Hypem has a lovely layout, I think it's gorgeous. However, a way to compromise on this would be to split the screen, newspaper style with the left side having your top 100 which would scroll slowly and the right side scrolling quickly with all blogs as they come in. Or with the right side with all blogs, but limited to one post per blog (and minus those top 100).
It would give the newbie a taste of what's really popular out there AND a look-see at how many of us there are so that she could know to go searching for what she wants and not be overwhelmed or underwhelmed by the default page. It would, of course, mean a total overhaul, and that's not something you could undertake lightly.
Just an idea, and yes, Anthony do accept my thanks as well. I feel like sometimes we forget that this service is granted to us at no cost to us but at huge cost in time and patience by you and the team at Hypem.
Another issue here that no one seems to want to discuss is the ad revenue gained or lost by being included/barred from that prime real estate of default front page. I have no ads and little traffic so as an uninterested party I'll raise the issue, I'm curious if it's not a concern or if everyone is simply being polite to not talk money at the dinner table?
Tart -
Ha, leave it to Tart to stir shit up.
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Squashed has said a lot of interesting/on point things in this thread
To step back for a minute and look at the broader picture w/r/t Hype Machine's relationship to MP3 blogs, the original set-up of Hypem encourages cut-and-paste blogging -- posting an MP3 or a news item for the sheer sake of posting something 3, 4, 5 times a day and getting some hypem traffic. Most of these non-news posts consist of a blogger saying, "Here's the new MP3 by a band we all like, check it out." There is no original thought, criticism or commentary. I think this is why music blogging as a movement has largely failed.
For example: If you're a standard MP3 blog and you get a few hundred/thousand hits a day, there is literally no reason whatsoever for you to post, say, the Veckatimest release date. 99% of your readers has already read about it on Pitchfork or Stereogum. You're wasting everybody's time, including your own. (For the record, I posted the Veckatimest release date, but I keep my newsy posts to pool of 5-10 bands that I know my readership and I are particularly interested in, like the National or Ryan Adams. The point is, blogs outside of Stereogum and the like are practically never breaking news.) However, posting that news is an excuse to post an MP3, ta-da! and get some hits from Hype Machine.
Maybe having to earn that extra traffic without having it spoonfed to you by an external website that's basically doing everyone in this thread a big fat favor might actually produce some posts worth reading.
And additionally, for people talking about how their writing isn't as good as some bloggers or they don't post that often or whatever it is -- what are you trying to get out of blogging? A paycheck? Why should your blog be put on the front page of a big website if you're not producing content that's unique and worthwhile? Why should somebody owe you 100 clicks for posting an MP3?
I'm not trying to call anybody out, it just seems pretty clear that music blogging on the whole has become a pretty vapid, worthless exercise in pasting and piracy. We were supposed to kill the magazines like four years ago, guys. They're going to die and we still won't be ready. And no, I'm not in the top 100 and yes, I just moved my site and lost my Google footprint. That's why I have an RSS feed. Hype traffic ain't exactly core readership, everybody knows that. -
On charts: We like the Technorati / Delicious stats precisely because they aren't closely connected to many things your blog does. Those stats successfully indicate if someone gets attention or has readers. Yes, they are not perfect, but we aren't arguing over #85 vs #80 here, these charts generally indicate that you are towards the top you've been doing this for some time and people are into it. The solution here isn't to improve the charting data (though it'd be nice), because all data will have a set of people it misrepresents.
In general, while I like the data that I got internally for the "most followed" blogs, as soon as we begin relying on it, people will attempt to game it, as with all data. A winning set of charts would be one difficult to manipulate. With these things, the wrong people try to manipulate the charts, of course.
On # of blogs to include in this set: This is similarly not a solution because if we make it 250, people will still be left out so the issue will remain.
Tart - that's a neat idea, though I worry it'd be even more confusing what we have here, as again I doubt the two differences will mean much to a very casual user.
Donewaiting - you are dead on. -
technorati and delicious are oriented toward standard text/link base. the "mp3 audience" dimension is missing. (not to mention both are largely english website oriented)
so they are good for something, but not perfect. Nobody else has the "mp3 audience" covered -
Dave, you don't fuck around.
Good questions, man:
"And additionally, for people talking about how their writing isn't as good as some bloggers or they don't post that often or whatever it is -- what are you trying to get out of blogging? A paycheck? Why should your blog be put on the front page of a big website if you're not producing content that's unique and worthwhile? Why should somebody owe you 100 clicks for posting an MP3?" -
squashed - your windowing idea is a bit too complex, this must be something simple and effective."
how about tagging a blog name with "ranking number" then make your computer filter (8-12 am, only 1-100 go to front page, everybody else invisible), 12-7pm, 100-500. 7pm to 8am, 1-100 blog get filtered out.) don't know.... kinda the same scheme as your "only top 50, vs all blog visible) but only for front page visibility, the entire thing is still being indexed and feed. -
squashed, it's not all about the mp3, and that's why those stats are valuable
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blend it anthony...blend...
random idea ...
(technorati * delicious) + (blog being favorited click * other magic hypem/elbow number) = new ranking system -
I understand your reasoning behind Del.icio.us. but I feel like there is a better way to judge it. Maybe I am just looking at it through my own perspective but I personally don't know anyone who even uses the site. Maybe RSS subscribers would be a good way to produce a ranking but then again is it even possible to gather all the blogs rss numbers?
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Posted by: Dave RawkblogTo step back for a minute and look at the broader picture w/r/t Hype Machine's relationship to MP3 blogs, the original set-up of Hypem encourages cut-and-paste blogging -- posting an MP3 or a news item for the sheer sake of posting something 3, 4, 5 times a day and getting some hypem traffic. Most of these non-news posts consist of a blogger saying, "Here's the new MP3 by a band we all like, check it out." There is no original thought, criticism or commentary. I think this is why music blogging as a movement has largely failed....Maybe having to earn that extra traffic without having it spoonfed to you by an external website that's basically doing everyone in this thread a big fat favor might actually produce some posts worth reading. And additionally, for people talking about how their writing isn't as good as some bloggers or they don't post that often or whatever it is -- what are you trying to get out of blogging? A paycheck? Why should your blog be put on the front page of a big website if you're not producing content that's unique and worthwhile? Why should somebody owe you 100 clicks for posting an MP3? I'm not trying to call anybody out, it just seems pretty clear that music blogging on the whole has become a pretty vapid, worthless exercise in pasting and piracy. We were supposed to kill the magazines like four years ago, guys. They're going to die and we still won't be ready. And no, I'm not in the top 100 and yes, I just moved my site and lost my Google footprint. That's why I have an RSS feed. Hype traffic ain't exactly core readership, everybody knows that.
If given a choice, I'd obviously take the Hype traffic. It makes things a little bit harder. I just don't think it's fair to those good blogs out there. I will never be favor of excluding good blogs just so we can finally be rid of the bad apples. The bad apples do need to be eliminated but not at the expense of others.
I'd say a better idea, would be to let us (us being music bloggers) decide who's not worthy. I'd rather debate and choose who's undeserving then arbitrarily say, everyone from this point down isn't good enough. Or instead of simply a "love" ranking, have people have a say to vote something down too and have that as a major factor.
On both Elbo.ws and Hype there are benefits of re-posting the same topics, the same remixes without any real substance. It still ends up in the popular section of Elbo.ws and often times I wish I could banish it the trash bin (or I click something else worthy to try to get other links past it). Honestly, I'm not sure if writing of the best quality ends up being the most popular, my worst written posts have ended up being the ones that were most successful (flaws end up bring out discussion rather then covering all angles and doing a good job leaving the reader nothing to input other then "Ok" or "Good job").
I think we need to be critical of the offenders. What's wrong with pointing out our fingers and shoving names? The ultimate goal is to challenge people to diverge from the crap that has been on blogs these days. (I'm looking mainly at Elbo.ws -I mean U2 as the popular artist even as a whipping boy, remember the good 'ol days? (and I was hardly part of it when I visited and clicked everything on Elbo.ws). I've already called someone out, I was planning to do so more in the future but I hate the stench of being a dick.... Owell if Hype decides to go with excluding the post 100 blogs, I guess I'll concentrate on controversial topics rather then the massive number of reviews.
Sorry for the grammar/spelling mistakes in advance. -
Posted by: anthony@hypemsquashed, it's not all about the mp3, and that's why those stats are valuable
I dunno, a lot of my technorati links lead to my mp3s and not my posts.. -
See that's the thing. I am producing content that's worthwhile. Quite a lot of it actually. One of the big reasons why I'll never sniff the top 100 is because it takes me so damn long to write an in-depth post that there's simply no way I can get motivated to post every day. This change is a problem for me precisely because I'm spending a lot of time and effort on trying to write interesting, unique things.And additionally, for people talking about how their writing isn't as good as some bloggers or they don't post that often or whatever it is -- what are you trying to get out of blogging? A paycheck? Why should your blog be put on the front page of a big website if you're not producing content that's unique and worthwhile? Why should somebody owe you 100 clicks for posting an MP3?
I don't have any interest in SEO or fishing for Technorati links or whatever other stuff people do to pump up their numbers because a) I don't know or want to know how to actually do that stuff b) it feels antithetical to the whole operation I'm trying to run and c) some of that stuff would compromise things I like about my blog.
The Hype Machine can do whatever they want, obvi. But the reason this change is so frustrating is because it has always felt like a positive way to funnel new potential readers to my site.
Basically, I don't know who you think you're asking this question to. The people posting in this thread put a LOT of work into their blogs and resent the implication of the "top 100" (or the "top 250 for that matter) that if you haven't managed to become popular than you're not any better than the crappy "MP3 and no commentary blogs." Honestly, that's a big part of what makes me so angry about this change. And I don't want to speak for Marcy and the others, but I think that's true for them, too. We put WAY more work into this stuff than we'll ever get back. We all do it for our own reasons, and Hype Machine validation isn't one of them.
BUT, when one of the few parts of the music world that has always felt like an ally against the monoculture of most music-media suddenly turns against you and implies that your content isn't worth displaying, it doesn't feel nice. -
edit: nevermind, i've said my piece.
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As for the "problem" of too much stuff cycling through the front page. Two comments:
1. Is this really a problem? The reason why blogs are great is because they're diverse and random and they post about all kinds of stuff that you'll never hear on the radio in a million years. That's like, the whole raison d'etre of this medium. I don't really get why the HM *wants* to be in the business of narrowing down what people are exposed to. There's like 7 billion other places in the world to check out what popular media thinks is good. Blogs are neat precisely because they might tell you something else.
2. If the problem is "bad" content swamping the front page, then be willing to figure out who is providing the bad content and stop indexing them. Or have a separate page for remixes. Don't group together the overwhelming majority of the indexed blogs and declare them all quarantined from the front page.
Really, as was said at the very beginning, having a "Top 100" or whatever OPTION that's prominently displayed is perfectly reasonable and makes lots of sense. But making it the default is troubling to say the least. -
what's up with Kanye west remixes keep getting thrown into popular page anyway? Is it something wrong with the blogs? The people who clicks? or what? They aren't even good hip-hop.
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i know anthony is reading the comments in his machine shop blog, but i just wanted to reiterate to all of you to read them too. http://blog.hypem.com/2009/03/we-are-experimenting/#comments boyhowdy continues to make great points and there are numerous additional comments that disagree with the change.
olneyce--you spoke for me just fine! if this were about getting something out of it, other than the satisfaction of finding new music and spreading the word and expressing myself, then i would have quit long ago. in other words, i am not here for the traffic. however that is not to say that i don't appreciate it. i like having readers and the chance to have more that the HM so generously brings me.
and yes, contrary to what dave rawkblog seems to think, there is a middle ground of bloggers who, amazingly enough, are NOT in the "top 100" but who also do NOT post one-off repeat posts of the hottest new hot shit to cross stereogum's desk in hopes of capitalizing on it. i'd argue that the bulk of the blogs on HM are exactly those kinds of blogs. -
i saw someone here in this big jumbled mess say that posting straight news items is more or less just an easy way to post an mp3, and that most blogs other than stereogum or pitchfork are essentially wasting their time posting news, since their readers have already gotten it somewhere else.
that might hold some water for most blogs, but not all. since buzzgrinder has been around since 2001 and we grew our initial readership (we still have a lot of readers and regular commenters who have been checking sine 2001-2003) from outside the mp3 blog community (i mean, hey, that community didn't even exist in 2002), a decent chunk of our readers don't get the news we post anywhere else and only really check buzzgrinder for news updates. weird, i know.
plus, at times we focus on a very specific scene and post news that not a lot of other outlets cover. like frodus reuniting. i've only seen a handful of other sites/blogs even mention it. and it's frodus! FRODUS!
i know whoever had been saying that about posting news items wasn't necessarily looking for someone to show them the exception to the rule. but i'm just trying to add to the conversation by sharing who/what/why buzzgrinder is what it is, and that isn't necessarily the same approach/attitude/perspective as a lot of folks on here, especially those who got their start after the big boom in music blogs. -
Posted by: mjrci boyhowdy continues to make great points
Well, on his own site he says:
"this new change at Hype Machine is a threat to a diverse, well-populated music blogosphere."
Really? i mean..... really?
realllllllllllllllllllly?
The one thing I would suggest to Hype Team on the top 100 thing is if a blog hasnt posted in X months it gets dropped. (i think someone mentioned this)
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People can argue about what does or does not make a "quality" blog until forever, and paring down by quality is an iffy proposition. The people arguing might be surprised to find themselves considered among the surplus population.
Perhaps those blogs who tailor their content to play Hype (and people can argue about whether they should or should not yadda yadda) will at least be forced to be more selective about what (mp3-wise and original content-wise) they post if they know that only a single post/day will make an appearance. Or not. -
I always thought the delicious + technorati equation sort of limited the ability for new (great) bloggers to make a big splash.. I know this isn't an elbows thread, but one thing we tried to do from the start is level the playing field. That said, I think there is a need to filter content, but I think it should be based on content, not blog popularity.
That said, elbows will be launching our new aggregator that simply aggregates 4 blogs. I'm calling it HipstereogumRunoffTheRecordophone.com -
Shit, Ryan Catbird better watch out
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Am I still on elbows or hypem?
http://elbo.ws/blog/4449/
http://hypem.com/list/4571
Am I no longer a valuable component to the mp3 aggregators which gave me life?
"Help me help you." -Tom Cruise -
Withdrawn
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I know I'm not in the top 100, and I know that 131 comments in, the bulk of the problem has already been discussed, but what about a random 100? Leave em up for a day, swap em out every 24 hours. Lather Rinse Repeat.
I'm with Dave Rawkblog on only posting news that matters to me (and by extension to my readers). I tried to do a weekly roundup, but I found it pretty soul crushing.
I know I don't post every day (lucky to squeeze one out every week), but I do appreciate those times when something I post gets some attention from HM and by extension those that visit. I get more search hits than anything, but still, with no HM traffic, my hits would be near zero. It's hard enough to muster up the motivation to post as often as I do, with no traffic, I'd just as soon pack it in.
I don't expect things to change too drastically, but I do agree with the consensus that limiting the front page to the top 100 blogs (whoever it might end up being) will only serve to homogenize the tastes of folks we're all trying to reach. There's a reason people are turning away from Spin and RS and the like, they all cover the same stuff, and with blogs, we have a chance to cover stuff they'd never touch with a 10 foot pole. Give those bedroom rockstars a chance to get their first audience, give those forgotten heroes a chance to rekindle the same excitement we have for them in a whole new generation.
I agree that filtering out the "Remix" will clear a lot of dead wood, as well as archiving those blogs that have since become inactive. Maybe give them a heads up that their status has been changed. With that culling, I think the hedge of the HypeMachine will be given new life and a chance to sprout new growth. -
Phew, way too much to read here! But I did want to add my voice - going by age, Muruch is one of the older music blogs (the blogspot version alone started in '01, after 2 years on another domain) on Hype. But like many others, the battle with blogger and subsequent domain transfer killed my traffic rankings. Considering how many established blogs were forced to move after the Google deletions at the end of '08 and beginning of '09, traffic is probably not the most accurate and certainly not the most fair thing to base this change on. At least not this year.
Though since the the Odeo channel started to hotlink all mp3s listed on Hype (and continues to do so), I haven't gotten many referrals from Hype anyway. So whatever. Of course, one way to drastically reduce your listings would be to only aggregate "legal" blogs (ones that only post authorized mp3s). ;p -
Quote: "I agree that filtering out the "Remix" will clear a lot of dead wood..."
Whoa whoa whoa... filtering out ALL remixes? I thought this was about blog aggregating NOT everything-but-electronic-music-blog aggregating. I'm a DJ/producer and will WILLINGLY ADMIT Hype Machine is FILLED with fuck awful edits/remixes/bootlegs of Justice/Daft Punk/Kanye whoever... but just taking remixes out of the pitcure? What about the stellar "Ulysses (IMISSMYJUNO Remix)"? Or the super infectious "3 Little Words (Black Ghosts Remix)"?
Eliminating remixes would be a pretty unfair way of handling things. Yeah, there's a lot of crap... most of it's crap... but a lot of the time remixes are the gateway to artists material. Example: In 2006 numerous Van She Tech remixes lead people to Van She, after hearing "Sex City" start listening to Crystal Castles' "Vanished", after hearing them they start listening to bands like them (or were remixed by them) like Datarock, Klaxons, Shy Child, Bloc Party etc all found through Hype Machine... granted, a lot of that shit is tired now, but at the time that was really exciting!
Now, whether you like those bands or not, remixes can be awsome AND can be a gateway to great artists. I mean a Frankmusik remix of Heads We Dance, led me to him, which renewed my interest in Dead Disco, and exposed me to Kash, Starsmith, L-Vis 1990, Paper Faces, Sky Ferreira, Leon Jean Marie etc. Same thing with Black Ghosts, same thing with Simian Mobile Disco.
Today I posted an amazing mixtape that Robot Koch did that's so good it should be for sale. Hopefully that will lead people to checking out other artists on his mix, perhaps getting them more interested in dubstep or even Jahcoozi. It's full of remixes? Should it not be on Hype? I guess the point is remix doesn't always mean "typical bedroom electro DJ bullshit that all sounds like Daft Punk/MSTRKRFT/Boys Noize"... electronic music isn't awful by default because SOME people make shit awful music...
If "remixes" are the cause of controversy then perhaps there should be a separate Hype Machine just for dance music based on tags in the post. So like if you put "dance, remix, electronic" then it's put into a different version of Hype geared toward that type of music. If that's what people have issue with I'd rather see that than a remix witchhunt. It is the users of Hype that are pushing this stuff into the popular list.......................
The previous suggestion about only aggregating legal blogs might not be the worst idea. Part of the reason why there are so many remixes is because the electronic labels are most apt to give you content and return requests for tracks than most major indie/major labels. -
Before this runs away too much further, I want to thank you, Olneyce, for standing up for me as well.
Just because I cannot spew out 3 to 5 posts a day--MY GOD! I do not work for a record label or music journal, and I have a LIFE offline--nor do I have the razor-sharp analytical skills of some writers, who I do admire, by the way--but that does not mean my blog is WORTHLESS. I NEVER C&P promo e-mails. I ALWAYS take the time to form and write my own opinions, and I research, find photos, and post links to the artists' pages and places to purchase. Many more popular blogsites don't do those extra things. I do find and support unknown artists in my own small way regardless of what Stereogum and P4K are posting. I'm not blogging for fame and fortune; I blog for my own need for personal expression, but I also don't want to just talk to myself, you know.
My own taste takes me away from what is most popular, and I just want people who share that taste to be able to find me. And they DO. Once upon a time, almost all my hits came from Hype. Now the great majority of my daily hits come from "No referring link," which means people are coming straight to me, from bookmarked links or whatever. So while in general my traffic has gone down (one great factor in that downturn is that I no longer allow image searches on my site, which reflects neither my choice of music nor my writing), the specific nature of the traffic is more stable. If I lost all Hype hits, I'd still have a small core of faithful; I would just have very little chance for growth, and that is what I am arguing for here: a chance to grow.
And I just want to insert in here that my Technorati rating on Hype, which is zero, is not correct, although the real number is pretty dismal due to my clumsiness regarding my feed when I changed my blog address. -
Posted by: patch arcadiaThe previous suggestion about only aggregating legal blogs might not be the worst idea.
This would absolutely be the worst idea. Hype doesn't need to go "legal" because they pay royalties for their radio stream, and this would mean Hype's content would be even more dicated by PR e-mail attachments than it already is.
OTOH, posting of leaked pre-release tracks is the sort of part-of-the-problem stuff that could be used to chuck blogs from the roster. But I don't really want to get into where you draw the line arguments beyond drawing a line at one representative post/24hrs. -
What a crock! Like Stereogum and Gorilla Vs. Bear need more traffic. From HM: "All the blogs that The Hype Machine checks for fresh music. Without their insight and love for music, this website would not exist." Yeah, you got that right - "community" was bandied about for years and now we're told the community is only 100 music blogs. Check through the non-100 and see how many songs are favored - so far, I've not seen one, but the 100 acceptable blogs are garnering numbers like 20 and up. Why is the HypeMachine trying to increase traffic? To better serve readers and the blog community? Hell no, after years of watching other sites make money, they want in. They built their site on the back of content providers, now they're abandoning them. Well, hey - it's their site, they can do whatever they want with it. I appreciate them helping getting my blog off the ground, now it's time to roll up the sleeves and do some self-promotion. Blogroll links are now more important than ever and it's time all of us start promoting elbo.ws to our readers.
Surprised? No, this world revolves around money, that's why you have "artists" like Britney Spears jammed down our throats and ears. Disappointed? Very - you had me fooled, HypeMachine - I was stupid enough to buy into your hippie idealism. I'm sure you'll be more successful than ever - enjoy it, hopefully one day I'll get ruthless enough to cash in like the smart people do. -
Why the hostility when Anthony's already addressed all that... nothing is being removed from the index, if your site is simply based on front page hype hits (rather than hits from searched pages) I believe Mr. Rawkblog addressed that nicely.
"after years of watching other sites make money, they want in"... lol
similar to the comments here, are the comments coming on the Hypem thread are coming from readers/users or a small section of bloggers? we're all a fairly small section of those included in the index, and a VERY VERY small section of those who use the Hype Machine... would the argument still be made if those contesting the change were on the top 100, or whatever? -
"Why the hostility when Anthony's already addressed all that... nothing is being removed from the index, if your site is simply based on front page hype hits (rather than hits from searched pages) I believe Mr. Rawkblog addressed that nicely."
If you actually read what I wrote, you can see the non-100 blogs aren't getting favored at all. This connotes not many are reading them.
"'after years of watching other sites make money, they want in'... lol"
Read their tumblrs and see the meetings they're taking in with the big boys. Lots of talk about website content in their posts.
"would the argument still be made if those contesting the change were on the top 100, or whatever? "
Would I'd be as upset as I am? Honestly, not as much - but I read all thirty pages of content a day. All the sites HM leads me to are not in the top 100, I'm looking for the little gems you'd never see Pitchfork post in a million years. But, they are quite correct - the casual music fan wants the latest Lady GaGa and not muck about a lot of posts about rare tracks. This will make them more successful than before - I thought it was about community, not traffic, I was wrong. -
I know the the thought of 100 random blogs and 100 top blogs has been discussed to death in the past 3 pages, but how about a combination?
Maybe make it a 250 blog list including the top 100 and then 150 randomly rotated?
Help new users find the diamonds in the rough as well as some of the more established blogs - best of both worlds. -
Posted by: cb chris if your site is simply based on front page hype hits (rather than hits from searched pages) I believe Mr. Rawkblog addressed that nicely.
This is cute, but the alternative is that your site being featured on Hype is only there so people can search for and download specific tracks. That happens anyway, of course, but without the serendipitous for-all on the front page Hype comes closer to retreating into the function of being more of a money-free iTunes replacement (plus links to Stereogum, of course). If your traffic is based on searched hits -- and with the front page scrolling the way it has been, it's a better game to play -- then the best way to play that game is to post searched-for artists. This might be why remixes - which can combine multiple searched-for artists - wind up getting into your Popular Tracks. Or not. Whatever.
As for how people are reacting to it, I think a far more illustrative roll-out would have been giving people the option of choosing the Top 100 instead of making it the default. See how many people choose it. I would guess that the casual user won't even notice the difference unless there's a huge blinking YOUR OPTIONS HAVE BEEN CHANGED FOR YOU banner.
I still think the whole thing was poorly considered and the consequences are lousy. And that would be more true were I a "Top 100" blog (there's a universe I wouldn't want to visit).
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Things were rotating through at a high rate anyways, so the chance for landing on the homepage and staying there for any length of time wasn't too high to start with.
"As for how people are reacting to it, I think a far more illustrative roll-out would have been giving people the option of choosing the Top 100 instead of making it the default. See how many people choose it. I would guess that the casual user won't even notice the difference unless there's a huge blinking YOUR OPTIONS HAVE BEEN CHANGED FOR YOU banner." that's an interesting idea... could a cookie or something be used to save someone's preference? If they feel that they'd like an unfiltered list, go that route... -
Exactly. If the readers have to already know who they want to search for in order to find tracks I posted, then the only blogs that get reader recognition for introducing someone new are the top 100, the only ones a reader will see by default. Plenty of the top 100 do introduce new artists, but they aren't the only ones who do.Posted by: J HoaS...but without the serendipitous for-all on the front page Hype comes closer to retreating into the function of being more of a money-free iTunes replacement (plus links to Stereogum, of course). If your traffic is based on searched hits -- and with the front page scrolling the way it has been, it's a better game to play -- then the best way to play that game is to post searched-for artists. This might be why remixes - which can combine multiple searched-for artists - wind up getting into your Popular Tracks. Or not. Whatever.
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I haven't had time to read all this thread but I have a couple quick thoughts:
As a user of hypem the top 100 thing makes a lot of sense to me. I haven't looked at the front page of hype in a long time because of how cluttered it is. That might actually change now. With fewer (arguably better) blogs on there I see more stuff I care about. Just looking through the top 100 list, almost all of my favorite/watched blogs are represented.
On the other hand, I really think if the top 100 is going to be the say-all for who gets the best real estate on the site, the delcious + technorati should be updated more frequently! Also, blogs that haven't posted in months be taken off. I also like the idea that the most watched blogs be taken into account here.
Instead of remixes, hype should just filter out MGMT. -
This change fucks dogs. Categorically. I appreciate what you are trying to do but this is absolutely the wrong way to do it. A wonderful virtuous circle will be created whereby some randomly adored blogs will be anointed as the chosen ones, and simply the act of including them will make that chosen few incredibly hard to break into. And I find the idea that the contribution of those blogs is in any way superior or higher quality or more valuable to be a pretty insulting one, to be honest. Now there is no way I would make the cut, but I doubt that would change my mind. I don't read blogs to read ones like Stereogum, I read them to read ones like Marcy's and Linda's and ones like that. I presume it is not intended to be so, but this really looks like the kind of change that could turn the Hype Machine into some sort of Clearchannel for blogs. Total. Fucking. Rubbish.
One post per blog per day would be a better way to do it, even parallel tracking the Super Special blogs alongside their spastic cousins would be better, but this is just garbage. Happening across something randomly brilliant is part of the central charm of the Hype Machine, but that applies to the blogs themselves as well as just the mp3s. -
I am sorry if that sounds too aggressive, but I am really pissed off about this. Perhaps I have no right to be and all that sort of thing, but this just seems crap. And really like the opposite of what mp3 blogging was supposed to be about.
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Everyone keeps saying filter out the blogs that haven't posted in months. How does that help?
Do you just mean filter them out from the top 100? If so, that seems like a pretty minor solution to a major problem. The issue isn't the exact number. It could be the top 80 or 100 or 150 or 200 and it would still suck for the overwhelming majority of blogs.
I'm also still not sure I understand what's meant by "clutter." What, precisely, is the problem that's trying to be solved? Is it that the front page includes lots of posts that don't seem interesting? Interesting to whom? Is it that there's new posts on the front page every half-hour or so? Why is that a problem?
I'm not saying there's no answer to these questions. I'm just not sure us complainers really get what is trying to be fixed here. -
Withdrawn
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Posted by: olneyce What, precisely, is the problem that's trying to be solved? Is it that the front page includes lots of posts that don't seem interesting? Interesting to whom? Is it that there's new posts on the front page every half-hour or so? Why is that a problem?
.From Anthony on the first page of this thread: "The issue is that when the group of blogs on the front page is large, the page scrolls too fast and that traffic-grabbing bullshit gets more attention."
And CB, while the page always scrolled through, it never did so at such a ridiculous rate. A track will be up there for ten minutes sometimes, then jump to page 3. That's a tiny fraction of what it once was. Also, 10-4 Rubber Ducky. -
Well, in a sense, so what? If it's scrolling fast then you're still often just taking a chance with something you've never heard of. If it's one thing then it's another but that sense of chance is still there. Inevitably the increasing number of blogs and the increasing awareness of both them and the Hype Machine then it is an inevitability that there will be more noise and more of a skew towards populism - that just what popular means, surely?
Edit: I will add that the list could easily be trimmed though. When I was searching the database for the blogs which might enjoy Meursault there were loads of defunct blogs, and blogs which were never really funct in the first place. Cut out those and you'd lose a good few hundred. -
Olneyce: "I'm also still not sure I understand what's meant by "clutter." What, precisely, is the problem that's trying to be solved? Is it that the front page includes lots of posts that don't seem interesting? Interesting to whom? Is it that there's new posts on the front page every half-hour or so? Why is that a problem?"
I'm having trouble with this whole 'front page was too cluttered' thing too. I never thought it was too 'cluttered'.
Toad: "I don't read blogs to read ones like Stereogum, I read them to read ones like Marcy's and Linda's and ones like that."
Exactly! It's incredibly rare for me to read any of these so called Top 100 blogs as I don't find them anywhere near as entertaining or as interactive as the 'smaller' ones like Linda's, Marcy's, Toads', JC's, Tart's, Slowcoustic etc. The writers of these blogs interact with you and talk with you and are more about the music that affects them rather than breaking the latest news and regurgitating press releases. I don't mean this as an attack on the 'bigger' blogs because obviously what they're doing is incredibly appealing to the mass market, but that's just not my personal taste, nor what I like about music blogging. So to say that those bigger blogs have more value than my blog and the blogs that I read every day is insulting and to limit our traffic by not giving the casual user of Hype immediate access to our blogs serves only to limit the exposure of the artists we cover and the words that we write to support them.
I'm not angry about this exactly, but I do think that the smaller blogs like mine deserve a fair go and at the moment it doesn't seem to be happening.
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