Elbows Music Blog Community

Wait, I've had some kind of power all this time?

Are in charge of filling up the internet with niche views, diluting the readership of more established enterprises?

I quite like the being in charge of very little except my own taste. The fact people agree with me is a bonus, but people are fickle and I have no doubt will desert me as soon as something better with access to more free music they like comes along.

Giovani is harshing on the music bloggers on the panel. Interesting comments. Maybe there should have been some snarky old media types to get the discussion headed in the right direction. I wonder if sxsw provides a transcript after the fest is over.

Posted by: buzzgrinderconsidering the self-promotional and hype-perpetuating nature of some music blogs, i would imagine "come listen to me talk about my blog" would be an apt description. not hating on the specific panelists here. just making a general observation on the state of the music blogosphere.

 

Well most blogs, outside of music fit the title more. Like the money-making blogs and what not really make me want to shoot myself in the head before I want to hear/read about them. At least with most music bloggers, they could just talk about the music they like. Then again,...some music bloggers are annoying.

Posted by: J HoaSThis panel should have been named "Come listen to me talk about my blog" not "Bloggers are now in charge" - http://twitter.com/giovanni

 

yeah i dont know who that dude is but on his site i read on his website that he creates internet rock stars. (????)



I hope people got something out of it... the title of the panel was awkward, but the description of the panel i thought was a good one:



"Amid the rubble of the music industry, a new breed of music enthusiasts has established instantaneous and direct links to like-minded fans. What exactly is their impact on the scene?"



i thought all the panelists really spoke from personal experiences, and glen from coolfer was an awesome moderator.



a big topic of the panel was how do the blogs impact local scenes which is something i love talking about...

It sounds like it simply wasn't very organized - or at least not to Giovanni's liking - which I've found, unfortunately, is very common with discussion panels like this. Since I wasn't there I obviously can't offer any credible opinion on that specific panel, but I know that a capable moderator is key to keeping things on topic and within the format. On the other hand, it sounds like SXSW may not have given the panelists a proper outline/guideline in terms of what the key speaking points should have been.

Still, this guy is apparently a public relations/marketing expert, and I think part of his problem is that he expects people who are not in the marketing field to speak like people who are, as well as speak to the specific issues he's interested in, as a marketer ("I expected to walk into this panel and be blown away by a couple, if not five emerging media/social media mavens"). Blogging is an amateur endeavor by default, so to expect the guy that writes about music because he loves it to say anything other than "I write about music I like" is kind of silly. The fact that he found the concept of bloggers being 'fanbois' as shocking reveals the unrealistic expectations/general lack of awareness he walked into this panel with.

Frankly, I'm not sure how many bloggers really have a grasp or are concerned with their so-called impact, let alone could go into great detail about it. To me, if they wanted that kind of discussion they probably should have selected someone like Matt Fluxblog to be on there - he's not only been around for a long time, he gets great mileage out of the whole 'very first MP3 blog' tagline. Point being, I think he has a good idea of how to effectively market his blog, so he may have been more up this fella's alley.

Sean R...the way I look at it, Matthew P really isn't a "blogger" anymore, he has moved into a professional role as a writer for several outlets, though he still (technically) has a wonderful blog.

As for this Giovanni fellow, if he's a marketing guy, don't feel as though you aren't "cutting it" by speaking his language. I'm a marketing person who is CONSTANTLY reminding labels and other PR folk that bloggers should not be treated like promo puppets. Just do what you do because you like it. If you want to do something more formal down the line, like Matthew and others have done, it will happen, but don't sweat it. Have some fun.

Personally, I enjoy blogs who haven't been co-opted by the evil music business (to which I am a party, *sigh*). Once blogs start turning it into a job, it really shows.

Besides, everyone knows if you gather a bunch of bloggers together in the same place we're eventually going to circle jerk about vinyl. It's inevitable. :)

mmmmmm vinyl.....

C'mon Craig can't you put in a proper link with some Html? :-) Interesting article thanks for pointing it out!

First:

"pr type person confused and annoyed about how each individual blogger wants to be contacted and sent music in a different way" = bad at your job

Showing respect to people that play a crucial role in your career? Unheard of! While I have not been blogging as long as some of you good folk, bloggers deserve a lot more credit than is given. I wouldn't mass email some promo people so they can send me new music!

Regarding the future:

While blogging as a business is unrealistic unless you have the capital to invest in a Stereogum-like set up, I see no issue with business savvy bloggers! Taking into consideration how many people follow music blogs and how many people follow those people that follow music blogs, there is a large audience out there to support new, music related business ventures. Hype Machine being an obvious example! While music will never die, it is important that we have a stable industry that can stand behind musicians and music lovers. This has most likely been addressed before, but I would love to see more bloggers getting together to dream up new business ventures. Many of us have vast networks of people to reach out to, knowledge of the industry's shortcomings and a strong awareness of music and cultural trends, beyond our day job skills and other talents. If you see what I'm getting at I would be totally down to hit the drawing board with some of you! If anything it's a good exercise in forward thinking!

Cue rally call.

earsofthebeholder@gmail.com

And some bloggers expect a brand new freshly penned and 100% personalised email from someone who has several hundred of the things to send and a day job.  Speaking from personal experience, that just isn't realistic.

Do most pr type people realize that bloggers A) potentially receive hundreds of emails a day and B) most likely don't blog full time and have very busy lives.

I use emails more as a reference now. I hardly ever sit down and read them unless it really grabs my interest or it's directed right at me.

Wendy - Based on your comments you seem like the type of person we need more of!

From my perspective, I just think it's better for PR to foster strong relationships with a few bloggers that really dig the material and have strong readership, rather than trying to fish for responses from a bunch of blogs. Quality over quantity seems to work out best in a lot of situations.

I wrote a whole three paragraph comment to the above comments but when I hit the add your comments button I got logged out and lost it all. So, I will try again, I'm tired so bear with me....

I just don't get the above comment from EarsoftheBeholder. Isn't the situation you describe already in place? The larger blogs with the big readership already have established contacts with the PR folks and get the exclusive material first (ref: Stereogum, GvsB, MOKB). Now, I have no problem with these blogs and applaud them for their success. But, in the end the smaller blogs get the shaft. There is a huge group of readers out there that follow the smalller blogs because they like the effort they put into writing and reviewing albums and tracks. Yes, quality over quantity, in itself, is a good idea. But if you only cater to the larger blogs you will be missing a huge audience. Personally, I avoid "blogs" like Stereogum because they just seem so mainstream to me. They don't have that indie feeling. And, again I am not trying to diss them, but it is just the way I feel. And I know a lot of other blog readers feel the same way.

I run a shit for nothing small blog with a small readership (they only come for the mp3's). I would love to have the chance to feature an exclusive track and write a decent review on it. But I never get the opportunity. Wendy, I will say, has been very good to me and even though I am small she has given me some good material to review. But, she is the only PR person that I have a relationship with and that will try to work with me. And I would also argue that a good PR person is not doing their job properly if they only cater to the larger readership blogs. They would be in essence hurting themselves, the labels and the artists. That is because there is a huge group of readers out there that only visit the smaller blogs because they enjoy the more intimate feeling that they get from these blogs.

Well, I am f*&*&*ing rambling now but it just doesn't make sense to me. The beauty of music blogs is that there is so many of them and a great diversity (sp?) among them. I enjoy the smaller blogs, the thoughtful writing and the whole DIY aspect of it all. But, with the current model we have, I am probably missing out on being exposed to some new good stuff. So, to me, a good PR person would spread the "quality" out to as many blogs as possible. That way, the whole audience out there can be exposed to the music and it will do a better justice to the labels and artists alike.

Well, I have probably written myself into a hole here and will pay for it..... Sorry, just my opinion.

Yeah I'm not talking about the big Stereogum type sites. They are a completely different level. I mean the real deal niche blogs with dedicated followings who will hype the shit out of new music to the right influencer type people. I don't know your situation merzmars, but if you want more PR opportunities you might have to just put more work into talking to those people. I'm sure you get your fair share of promo blasts.

Can I just reiterate, as Ears says above, that the 'engage on a personal level' thing goes both ways.  If PR people send you stuff, give them a little feedback and unless they are total fuckwits you should find that the quality of the relationship increases massively.  It only takes a couple of sentences.

If PR people send you stuff, give them a little feedback and unless they are total fuckwits you should find that the quality of the relationship increases massively.

So true. For a long time if I didn't like something I went the Golden Rule route and simply said nothing at all, because I didn't want to seem nasty or ungrateful, but I discovered that a simple 'sorry, not for me' goes a long way. It also tends to whittle down the number of 'sorry, not for me' replies I'm forced to write, as the PR folk start getting a better idea of what your tastes are.

Thanks y'all for some excellent responses. I'm in a delicate spot personally and I appreciate the thoughtful comments. Matthew and EarofTheBeholder hit home with the "engage on a personal level" issue. In retrospect, I do get tons of emails from PR people (I even posted about that recently). And the fact is I feel guilty that I don't put enough effort into those emails. And I wondered recently where that guilt feelling came from. Well, I know now, that it is because I have not paid enough attention to those emails, but more importantly I have not engaged with any of them. A simple email reply would go a long way to the start of establishing a relationship with those PR people.

We all are very fortunate to have someone like Wendy who has engaged herself to us all. She has gone out of her way to establish these relationships no matter the size of the blog. And I'm sure there are probably other PR people out there like her. But, it goes both ways as Matthew said. I need to respond to those emails and do my part in cultivating a successful relationship. Blogging is a social thing and it requires a lot of work (researching new music, communicating with other bloggers and PR people etc.) but the payoff is wonderful especially when you get a comment from someone that says thanks for introducing me to this new music. So, in the future I will try to engage more with the emails I get and develop better relationships with the folks sending them.

Pshaw, guys. I am so tired of hearing the song-and-dance about "personal emails" that I want to die. Sure, it's about "establishing relationships" but most of my personal emails in the PR biz went unanswered. How are you supposed to build relationships that way? The fact is: bloggers demand more from PR people than most of the big-time freelancers did. I got less guff from Robert Christgau and David Fricke than I did from hundreds of bloggers. The entitlement I encountered was downright astounding sometimes. So what do you do? I'm not going to NOT send press releases. It's still the most effective way of disseminating information on a large scale. I also did MP3 updates to people. And I sent personal emails. You have to remember that there are thousands of you guys, along with all of my traditional media contacts. I'm sorry if it's hard to develop a relationship, but gimme a break. It cuts both ways. I offered exclusives and things to all kinds of smaller blogs because they (GASP) wrote me back. I did the personal email thing, to no avail, for so long that it's laughable that it keeps coming up as a suggested PR strategy. You think personal emails are best? I started PR in the days of phone calls only. That was a lot easier because people couldn't avoid you or get squirrelly on the phone.

Wendy is right to blame some of the spammer-type PR people for the problems with lack of response, but it's a two-way street. Write back and say "I hate your stuff" and that's fine. It's a response for our clients. If you want out of the emails, just say you want out. If the PR person is a professional--and I admit that not a lot of us are--then you can get out of them.

And I will say this, and it's gonna be hard for you to hear, but some of you out there in the blogosphere are not nice people. The angry emails noted by Sean R. are de rigeur with some folks. Others have their favorite PR people and they become Motormouth: The Blog or Force Field: The Blog, perhaps without even knowing. And, finally, blogs individually are not always "crucial" to a PR person's success on their own. It's the combination of blogs posting about the same thing that helps. It's the appearance of hype that drives more success. In fact, the more of them that are out there the less each one of you individually matters to a PR person. That means more spam and less personal emails. This why I groused when 300 blogs told me they wouldn't accept digital servicing and all wanted personal emails.

Some days, I am glad to be out.

The last two paragraphs of Craig's post above sums up my thoughts far better than I was going to write them

I think we did say that, though.  I specifically said that sending out 300 individual emails just wasn't practical, and then also said that we have to practise what we preach in terms of responding civilly and individually to people who send us nice things.  I don't disagree with anything you're saying, Lucas, and actually I thought you wrote perfectly judged mass emails.  But the way you are talking sounds like you feel you are disagreeing with the bulk of these comments and I don't think you are. There's a whole page here where we are basically saying that being nice to PR people is important.



We're all agreeing with you, old chap. 



Although with a few exceptions my relationships tend to be the best with PR people who work for labels, rather than PR companies.  Wendy and yourself in the old days, and Matt Brown from Loose over here are the exceptions I can think of off the top of my head.  But generally when it's a label PR person it works better because the hit rate is much higher as labels seem to be more likely than PR firms to have a signature sound or style which is easier to target.

A meta-note: this discussion reminds me that I write because I love the stuff, not so I can get some sort of credibility. Just in time, too, because it kind of dilutes the frustration I was just feeling about a fellow same-niche blogger who just sent a huge "this is everything I've been sent in the last few weeks" post, and turns me back towards my own love of the music even as it keeps me from revisiting the emails which contained those cover songs.

As Craig says, I have no interest in writing about the next best thing just because everyone else does, but I also lose all interest in writing about even ONE of those if all I have to offer is what every other blogger is already looking at, and using. In my mind, this is what keeps me looking for those personally written emails. And if someone feels they have to send out 300 personal emails, they're missing the point entirely.

But all this talk is, in the end, as much a function of going digital overall, isn't it? Which is why I still favor hardcopy reachout, even as the world changes.

See, if I get a CD, 'specially in THIS day and age, the odds are better it's gone to less people, as it took more energy (and more cost) PER RECIPIENT to get it out. To me, getting a disk from a small-scale production is a better sign that what I'm holding has been targeted to ME, not an easy-to-hit-"send all" e-mailing list.

Labels, take note: even though most others prefer digital product, the larger issue is still valid and vital. The digital world may make it easier to reach more with less, but that has a devaluing effect on each product; to hold us responsible for that devaluation, and your own response to it, is both misguided and, given our "fans first" volunteerism, ultimately going to turn us off more than you'd like, and more than your model depends upon.

If PR company is that good, that company should skip the middle man and get to the public directly....





It's called "PUBLIC Relation" ... not "Intermediated , almost public, middle man service"

This is about as stupid as "record company" stops making record and simply becoming legal management entity that happen to sell some audio entertainment property.

I'm not sure, Dave. I don't think it's an attempt to dictate terms to merely ask publicists not to complain/hold us responsible for their own frustration when we have different needs. To ask that those needs be at least categorized is also harmless, IMHO, and indeed, in many cases is a helpful suggestion addressing that frustration.

Remember, this thread started, in part, as a response to a comment from a publicist who was frustrated by our diversity. They WANT to help us and use us, and we want to help them and use them; this discussion is just providing material for all of us to better create that balance, is it not? I think to dismiss the thread itself is to miss the point.

In other words: obviously, we are interesting in finding stuff we like; that's why publicists send us stuff, in the hopes that we'll like it enough to help them/artists spread the word. If I am ONLY interested in receiving stuff I like, then it's true, I should ignore publicity. But I don't think that's what I'm seeing here. To ask that the publicity machine both recognize us EN MASSE for who we really are, and provide a mechanism for us to filter that which we DO Like seems perfectly appropriate, as it saves time for them AND us, and keeps things civil.