Best of the Decade Lists
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I joined in the craziness.
Best Albums of the Decade:
http://www.muruch.com/2009/12/muruchs-best-of-the-decade-albums.html
Best Books:
http://www.muruch.com/2009/12/muruchs-best-of-the-decade-books.html
Best Films:
http://www.muruch.com/2009/12/muruchs-best-of-the-decade-films.html
Best TV Shows:
http://www.muruch.com/2009/12/muruchs-best-of-the-decade-television.html -
the usual suspect. a little bland.
I am surprised cat power didn't make it. what's up? Matador forget to pay their due again? lol.
http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/index.php/2009/12/09/the-2000s-best-of-the-decade-the-new-issue-of-rolling-stone/ -
Consensus brings a bit of blandness with it as a matter of course.
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Cat Power is a '90s artist who peaked with Moon Pix (see also: Yoshimi Battles The Pink Hugely Disappointing Follow-Up).
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Muruch, I applaud your Hem inclusion but I really hope you don't think that album is better than Rabbit Songs
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RABBIT SONGS!
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I have been reading a lot of these lists. Can we make this thread a repository of links to them?
off the top of my head...
Knox Road - Top Albums of the 2000's
I Guess I'm Floating - The Best Songs of the Decade
Pretty Much Amazing's Best Albums of 2009 -
Slowcoustic is doing a massive blogger best of with about 10 different sites
Best of 2009 Blogger Crew -
PS - My bland comment wasn't directed at you, Vic. I was speaking about consensus in these kinds of lists in general.
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Just put up part one of my songs list for the year:
50 Songs of 2009 (1 of 2)
Also there's these:
Best Music Videos of 2009
50 Albums of the Decade -
"Can we make this thread a repository of links to them?"
yep, these are the only links you'll need...
Best of '00s music lists:
http://www.largeheartedboy.com/blog/archive/2009/10/best_of_the_200.html
2009 Year-End Online Music Lists:
http://www.largeheartedboy.com/blog/archive/2009/11/2009_yearend_on_1.html -
Sean - I didn't think you meant me. You'd have to be crazy to call Dresden Dolls, Hedwig & the Angry Inch, and Reverend Peyton' Big Damn Band bland. ;)
Dave - I loved Rabbit Songs, but Funnel Cloud was more of a grower and yeah, I actually like it more now. But I prolly shoulda called the list my favorites of the decade instead of the best. The ones I like and listen to most aren't necessarily the most artistic albums released, they just appeal to me more for whatever reason. -
Posted by: bryonI have been reading a lot of these lists. Can we make this thread a repository of links to them? off the top of my head... Knox Road - Top Albums of the 2000's I Guess I'm Floating - The Best Songs of the Decade Pretty Much Amazing's Best Albums of 2009
good idea. but the title should be changed if we're including 2009 lists. we must have order, people. -
@muruch - "But I prolly shoulda called the list my favorites of the decade instead of the best. The ones I like and listen to most aren't necessarily the most artistic albums released, they just appeal to me more for whatever reason."
Oh God yes. I feel the same way with my list. Who am I to say what's 'best'? No thanks. I'll leave that to p4k -
I think that's pretty much taken as a given, Vic. I certainly don't think anyone would read any of our lists and assume anything else - at least, I hope not.
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nice list, WLFY. Love your number 1. I wish I could do a decade list, but honestly..... I have no idea.
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Re: the "best" vs. "favorite" debut, if you don't believe in the albums you're listing enough to call them the best you've heard, why bother?
My top 100 starts here: http://www.rawkblog.net/2009/09/best-of-the-2000s-top-100-albums-of-the-decade-100-81/ -
Dave, it's simply a case that you are expressing no more than your own opinion - this is music after all, that's pretty much all you can do - in which case favourite and best are pretty close to synonymous.
Anyone who thinks they somehow know which albums, in the grand scheme of things, are the *actual* best in the world from the last ten years is somewhat overestimating themselves.
Actually, anyone who can tell me what that even means wins a festive cupcake. -
Does the cupcake have sprinkles?
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There is no such thing as an objective "BEST" album. If there was, I'm sure some Jazz or Classical suite would destroy anything pop/rock wishes it knew how think about wanting to hope to create. But I don't care for Jazz or Classical that much, so they aren't the best to me.
But.... because there are hyper-literal people on the internet, we deem our lists to simply be The Most Awesomest, which, they are.
But to Dave's point, even though I might think Merriweather Post Pavilion is technically & executionally better than Julian Casablancas Phazes Of The Young, it doesn't mean I like it more. JC's albums is hooky, gimmicky, and full of crap lyrics, but I love that stupid album. Which is why it was my #35 and AC was merely and honourable mention.
If ya follow me... -
Yes but ultimately you aren't going to go and dig out some piece of perfectly executed yawn-fodder and award it Best Album, while you award Animal Collective or Grizzly Bear Favourite Album, are you? The only scale which really figures in this kind of thing, and this applies to all the glossy mags doing this as well, no matter how much they might kid themselves it doesn't, is how much you personally enjoy something. That's all pop really is, and this is all pop.
You can add some sort of technical proficiency criterion afterwards should you choose, but it will never figure in these lists properly because if the album doesn't work as a pop album first and foremost then no amount of intelligent songwriting structure, creative arrangement or impeccable playing will save it. Whereas if an album does happen to work as a brilliant pop record (ie instrinctive gut appeal) then people will usually overlook all the rest of it quite happily, because if it sticks in your head, speaks to your soul, makes you dance or whatever it does, then you'll remember it, pass it on and play it to your friends. -
@Thomas: That's why I made separate threads for decade lists and year end lists, but you can't organize these people. ;p
Matthew & Dave: I tend to agree with Matthew that it should go without saying that any lists, reviews, etc. are simply our personal favorites and not a universal standard. But I mentioned the "best" v. "favorite" thing cos of 1) Dave's above comment re: Hem, and 2) yes, I've already had a complaint about my calling it a "Best" list. People sure are picky! -
Here is my logic behind the "best" vs "favorite" debate. We called our top 50 list the best because it was complied from five people on the WLFY staff based off their individual favorites of the decade. I couldn't call the list WLFY's favorite of the decade, because I'm not a fan of some of the albums on the list...but it is the best of all of our combined tastes.
There is a huge difference between best and favorite in art, but I see it a little different than Toad. The perfect example of my outlook is Grizzly Bear's Veck. For our 2009 lists...they are our individual best of lists. I have Grizzly Bear at number 10 not because it is one of my favorites/most enjoyable...but I consider it to be a masterwork, I appreciate the hell out of it...but it would not show up on my top 25 favorite albums of 2009. I don't think best means...it is best as fact...we deal in art through opinion, that is understood by most. Best takes into account emotional reaction to the piece + musical appreciation, difficulty, and the impact on music itself. When doing a favorite list it all about one thing...how much you loved the music. I think both make for great lists, but that is how I see Best and Favorite when it comes to art. -
We had a very similar way of making our list WLFY. On all accounts, well-said.
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for the last 3 years i've called my year-end list a "top 30", which avoids using the words "best" or "favourite". it sorta avoids the debate because it's kinda ambiguous. that way the people who like the songs can feel gratified that someone else thinks the songs are the best, and the people who don't can interpret it as a very subjective list of favourites.
although, i do like Dave's idea of going out on a limb and declaring your favourite songs the GREATEST OF THE DECADE, because it attracts more attention, and a potentially greater chance to influence people to listen to the music. the internet masses will assume that you know what the fuck you are talking about, and that means more power for you.
also i think if you are positioning yourself as an armchair music critic, you should be able to defend your choices. if you are using the word "favourite" so that you don't have to engage other opinions on the value of the music (ex. "why do you think this song better than this song?"), then it's kinda a crutch.
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i don't think there is any difference between best and favorite when it comes to art. maybe there is technically/lexically/philosophically, but there isn't practically speaking.
the only reason to think there's a real, meaningful difference is if you're under the delusion that you can make an objective value judgment on art. and, of course, the very nature of a value judgment is subjective.
there might be some objective ways to quantify music. but then that only really helps you decide whether or not it's completely and totally awful. and even then, it's still in play depending on who you ask.
sure, i can say "i don't like this album, but it is good." however, that's still a subjective value judgment based on my own aesthetic criteria. -
also, i agree that the implication of any best-of list is that it's an opinion, regardless of how well/ill-informed it may be. that's why i don't say "in my opinion" or similar things when i'm writing. as any high school english teacher could tell you, when you write an opinion piece (which covers best-of lists), the fact that you're writing the opinion piece shows that it's your opinion. there's no need to ugly it up with "imho."
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the only reason to think there's a real, meaningful difference is if you're under the delusion that you can make an objective value judgment on art. and, of course, the very nature of a value judgment is subjective.
amen. the thing that bugs me about lists that try and portray a consensus view or a detached, impersonal 'best' is that it's a critical cop-out, effectively removing any value that your opinion was supposed to have to the reader. I'm reading your blog because I want to know what *you* think, not what you think 'everyone' thinks. -
@everyone ---- all valid points, but my 2009 was truly best and better than all of yours, objectively, subjectively, and even sexually.
=P
lol. -
My best of 2009 albums will be nothing but picture of nakeed people and Jay-Z remix.
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^ win
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also i think if you are positioning yourself as an armchair music critic, you should be able to defend your choices. if you are using the word "favourite" so that you don't have to engage other opinions on the value of the music (ex. "why do you think this song better than this song?"), then it's kinda a crutch.
Well said. -
Um, I may be completely ignorant here but, how do you "defend" why Hazards Of Love beat Dragonslayer for album of the year? Even at the "highest levels of music journalism"? At the end of the day, outside of some voting system, you just like/appreciate/feel that one is better/have more connections & memorys for/love one over the other.
You'd be defending just yer feelings, which are not necessarily my feelings. My geeky music friends and I back in middle school used to have arguments about which band/album/song/etc is better than the rest, but at some point, you have to realize we were both right.
So... the lists are really just for people who connect with you already to be like, "oh shit, he liked Hospice the mostest and thinks it's the bestest? Damn, I need to check that out!" or to connect with you, "MPP's his fave? mine too! I heart Dave!"
I'm not making any sense, am I? -
i don't think you're just defending your feelings. you're defending an opinion that's based on your aesthetic criteria, which is different.
if you want to defend your opinion by just using feelings alone, then that's something else entirely. and if you do that, most people will write you off — unless of course they agree with your taste. then you can say whatever you want.
but if you want folks to take you seriously even when they disagree with you, then you kinda need to be able to state your case in a cogent manner. at least then, people are more likely to say "i disagree with what you're saying, but you make a good point" or "it's nice to have a different perspective to enrich the discussion" instead of "you like shitty music" or "you're stupid if you think _____ is better than ______?!?!?!" -
ah... gotcha!
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If music (and by extension, art) was completely subjective, there would be no point in talking about it. As Gene Siskel once said: "There is a point when a personal opinion shades off into an error of fact."
Tsuru, I have a feeling you think that Merriweather Post Pavillion is somehow "objectively better" than the Casablancas album because it is critically acclaimed and "experimental" and thus a "more serious" release. Those tend to be easy -- but inaccurate -- signifiers of quality. -
If music (and by extension, art) was completely subjective, there would be no point in talking about it.
i disagree. i think the decidedly subjective nature of art that necessitates talking about it. we discuss it to see how each person differently interacts with, relates to and interprets what they're hearing.
and there may be a point where opinion becomes error of fact, but that's only when it involves basing your opinion on factual errors. -
@buzz - I'm with you on that, if it was all objectivity, there'd be NOTHING to talk about! 2 > 1, the end. Unless you want to say that 1 > 2 and discuss the situation where that may be possible, causing a scientific "fight", but all that is academics above the common blog bookmarker.
@dave - I use MPP vs. Casablancas because I know where each stand on the music crickets' collective list. I have no idea if MPP is actually technically better (except, I admit that Casablanca's lyrics are pretty shit), for all I know AC is just really good at fucking around with sound & shit. I could've used Dirty Projectors and Weezer to say the same point. Or Grizzly Bear and Miley Cyrus. To a lot of people, that Miley Cyrus album is amazing, speaks to them, and is the best thing they ever heard.. and you know what? They are right.
For all I know that little 13 year old girl will get in a music fight over another about who is "better", Cyrus or Duff? It would be epic, but in the end, their genetics, environment, and history resulted at the moment to each loving their respective faves, albums that may have flawless production and execution for all I know. Cyrus could have the BEST album of the year to her, and what of it?
But I will say this... to the people that you and I are probably paying more attention to, like the P4ks, serious indie-journalists, favourite bloggers, I betcha they do think MPP is a "better" album than Phazes, but again... who cares!
To me, it's about finding connections to other music lovers, sometimes challenging them, sometimes them challenging me, but for > 50% of the time, we are on the same page.
By the way..... if you haven't figured it out yet, I've COMPLETELY LOST my point to this post! lol. So, instead of making up one, let's remember how tiny and insignificant you, me, and this whole conversation is!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17jymDn0W6U
Makes us wish we were dust in the wind, at least then we'd be something! -
best 'best of decade' list i've seen so far:
http://ghostly.com/media/top110
'october language' AND 'you're so silent jens'!! -
@bond, damn, that layout was impossible to read along with...
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@tsuru really? i thought it was pretty nifty
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yeah, but I'm old. lol.
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and I only had my 2nd coffee.
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The ghostly list is great, thanks for posting. eMusic's is excellent, too. Solid, genre-centric overviews with coherent, knowledgeable taste on display: in other words, interesting and useful.
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Well... there was no way I could honestly compile a "best of the decade list". WAAAAAY too many albums to even start to build a list for my sorry ass. SOOOOOO I asked the members of our little music community to "Wax The Aughts (Poetically)" and we started featuring the "waxings" yesterday.
I think even my wife's getting in the act with some fond remember of some Sharon Jones soon. <3<br />
If you'd like to wax (term being used VERY loosely) send it to me and up it will go!!! tsururadio@gmail.com -
Hey anybody feels like making "10 most important album of the decade" list?
I am not sure what I want yet or wht is the difference between best of, but something completely grandiose....(you know, this is the most important musical work known to man in this decade. It breaks ground. Every subsequent music will be measured by these albums..
Things that have same significance as miles davis, kraftwerk, public enemy, sonic youth, slint, or first beastie boys album from the past 3 decades
The chance of this list will actually finish probably is nil...
first thing comes to mind ...
Cheval de frise - Cheval de frise (2000)
Peaches - The Teaches Of Peaches (2000)
Rachel's & Matmos - Full On Night (2000)
Don Caballero - American Don(2000)
Aphex Twin - Druqs (2001)
Four Tet - Rounds (2003)
Bill Laswell vs. Submerged - Brutal Calling (2004)
Venetian Snares - Rossz Csillag Alatt Született (2006)
Mokira - Cliphop (2006)
Boris with Michio Kurihara - Rainbow (2006)
Boxcutter - Glyphic (2007) -
Most important is tough since albums of the early decade have a huge advanatge...we've seen how influential/important they are. For me, Kid A is a tough album to beat when it comes to importance...while it is not in my top three favorites.
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If you want to make a list of 'most important' records of the decade, you should put records on it that are, you know, important.
Just sayin' -
If you want to make a list of 'most important' records of the decade, you should put records on it that are, you know, important.
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like what? Beatles Box set and dream little dream by susan boyle?
I don't even consider kid A an innovative or an album that is going to have wide influence. Kid A is more a summary of previous era. A closing bracket. It's popular repackaging of previous innovation. Just like U2 past 5 output despite being a chart buster are not that innovative or important. Somebody else will sooner or later do what they do. Retro/remake are a dime a dozen. Yes, I don't think current blog "rock" preference is good at pointing out important work except maybe few folktronica pieces. Most are just nostalgia pathos.
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