Elbows Music Blog Community

also i get that MBV probably does well in Google but c'mon

i'm sure this is just a preview of a preview.  something like a HuffPo for music might be interesting.  a meta-aggregator-filter with editorial. it's something missing from Hypem.  and instead of Sean Penn and Gavin Newsome, you get Sean Michaels and Joanna Newsom.

You gotta walk before you can run, and it was time to start walking-- too much time had already been spent just *talking* about walking. But, yes, we're hopeful to eventually hit the right stride. I know it seems like a strange concept, and I know that name is weird, and I know it's kind of unclear exactly where the thing is going, but the underlying intention lies very much in what Craig is saying, and very much in what Adam is getting at. It may seem like a weird, oddball thing right now, but again: walk, before run.

It's easy for me to understand people who may look at it and that think it seems completely pointless. I can see that, I totally get it-- but if that's the case, that's fine; just forget about it, and move on. It's not as if we took all the blogs and mashed them all into one giant mass, inextricable from each other. All the blogs involved remain independent, free, and just as you've always loved (or hated) them. And that's actually a key concept. If it seems stupid and pointless now, would it have seemed "better" if we all merged into one singular entity, and got rid of all of the individual blogs? Is that actually *preferable*? So yeah, you can get this content here, and you can also get it there. Isn't that already the case? Can't you already get content from a website, and the same content from the RSS feed, and the same content from Hypem, and the same content from all the many sites aggregating the content on the sly?

But why bother doing anything at all? And again, I point you to what Craig said above. Instead of sitting around in stasis (which is where the vast majority of music blogs are, and have been), waiting for the inevitable day when the entire online music space is finally owned by just one or two companies, I felt like doing *something.* Like I said, I know it seems oddball right now, I know. But don't expect for MBV to remain in an unchanging stasis either. I plan for us to *get there,* even if we (and I mean ALL of us) can't even definitively describe where "there" is just yet. This is just the cards being dealt; this is just looking at your hand for the first time. I look ahead and I know that there are still bets to be made, and cards to be turned. But choosing to get dealt into the game is an *active* choice. Who's to say exactly what could come of this concept? Here's the worst that can happen: nothing. But that result is *guaranteed* if we don't at least try.

Look at your blog and ask yourself: what's the future for it? You'll just keep plugging away, most likely in only in your spare time, pulling in a little bit of ad money, if you're lucky. Do you think some business entity is going to appear out of the blue and buy your blog for a million dollars? Really, what's going to happen? The best you can hope for is for some kind of sorta-related-to-music kind of business entity to appear, tell you how great your blog is, how they're going to help "promote" you, and how much money you'll make, then they'll slap a bunch more banner ads on you and happily take their cut. But this is like having a field of wild vegetables next to their house-- the blogs are the vegetables. Most of these entities are perfectly happy to go out and pick the tomatoes every year. But they don't care if the crops live or die-- they can always find more vegetables. Personally, I think it's better to actually tend to the crop, try to help them grow, try to make them healthy. It's the difference between thinking short-term and thinking long-term. I'm trying to think long-term.

And I know, I know, the vast majority of us do this all out of love, that's not my point. Like Craig said, "didn't you ever think there could be something more?" The point is, there'll never be anything more if writing about music online is just "a hobby; something I do in my spare time."

So, this is basically just an attempt by some really big music blogs to come together and squash all other music blogs? (Which I would mind....not that it matters)

or this is basically just an attmept to make some more scrilla / do something bigger through music journalism in a web 2.0 setting (which I wouldn't mind....not that it matters)

As far as content, I can wait to be under/overwhelmed until there's something trying to whelm me, but thumbs up for the stripping down and getting it out there.  The clumsy not-much-there nature of the thing (which I will call My Balls Vacillate) avoids making it feel like a calculated Product Launch, the aggregation at least assures it won't dry up after the initial urge passes.  It makes total sense to embrace a Tumblrish look when Tumblr recaptured the sort of intimate, unmeditated feel blogs had before they all started to feel like businesses.  Though I seriously never ever need to see another blog post that's just "Look at this YouTube link!"

I guess I don't understand what long-term goals there are, and if any of those are commercial.  Establishing a consolidated outpost for music bloggers' writing makes sense as most MSMish attention tends to get filtered to a few large sites.  But Hobbyism is, for me, the biggest attraction blogs have always held, as I assume peoples' spare time is of value and have appreciated their having shared it.

Anyway, yay, no fucking ads.

RE: Catbird's comment

Did Somebody say....Wonder?

http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/threadcount/tony-wonder_288x442.jpg

Oh and my little blog is just that... "little" and of no concern or threat to you big boys. Yes, I realize that.

How is this worse than blogs like Stereogum and various others which fill themselves with ads and hire extra writers and pay for shiny redesigns in order to accomplish 'something bigger' on their own?  The fact of the matter is that one step up from a blog is a magazine, albeit presumably a multimedia one, and this is just one way of trying to achieve this.



Personally I am trying to achieve it with the video, the local promotions, the label, the podcasts, and trying to basically turn into an amateur music channel of some description.  So it's in many ways the same urge, just differently executed.



One thing I will say, though, is that what I would call 'the beauty of blogging (TM)' is not this 'little bit more'.  The beauty of blogging is the reach of the amateur and the possibility of many amateur fans to find one another and build networks and talk about music in a totally individual, personal and uncommercialised way.  What I am currently doing and what these guys are doing and what any one of a number of places are doing is trying to push that a bit further and see where it can go before the large media companies entirely claim that bit of available space.



That is not amateur hobbyist stuff, though, and hence it is not what I would say makes blogs incredibly special, so I agree with Tart in many ways.  You could not put as much work into what you are doing as I do, or as these guys presumably do, if you were doing it with a view to remaining an amateur hobbyist pottering along, it just takes too much. 



The difficulty is that in pushing it a bit further you inevitably change it, and I really don't know yet whether or not I think that means that the special heart of music blogging can be maintained.  Is it an attempt to hoover up all the eyeballs of the music blog readership?  Well I doubt it.  That would be fucking appaling, as has been pointed out, if it were the case, but I don't really see it.  It would also be difficult to actually do.  Music blog readers surely are as diverse as the writers, and I think an awful lot will slowly lose interest in anything that becomes too successful or too ambitious or too big or too shiny.  So whatever MBV is trying to do, I can't imagine it having too much impact on smaller blogs. 



The one concern for me is that, as a couple of these entities get bigger and bigger, the music industry might come to them to negotiate licensing arrangements.  This would be hard to argue with or resist, and it would put anyone on the outside of that agreement in a position of potentially being clearly and explicitly unlicensed and that could lead to some serious problems for the amateur as it would take away any last shred of grey area behind which we now hide.

"We’re the blogs that started this thing. Music is important to us, and we know it’s important to you. So what’s say we get back to basics?"

good grief, that statement reads as if it's George Gervin trying to simultaneously take credit for inventing the finger roll while also decrying today's game of basketball with all of its flashy dunks and such.

or -right- music analogy: Les Paul saying "I started this whole electric guitar thing, and I know you like the pickin' and a strummin'. So what's say I start playing acoustic now?"

also, I thought everyone knew what IBM stands for?

regardless, I do like each of these sites individually. let's hope MBV is more CSNY than Temple of the Dog.

oh, and I think minimalism will only last about 20 minutes before everybody want glitz. .. just sayin'

No offense to Songsillinois, but I think a lot of the reason why we went along with Ryan's crazy idea is because it was Ryan's crazy idea, and we just trust and like him.

I think the best way to think of this thing is that we're all still independent, we do our things on our own, but now we just have this sort of alliance, and there's this website that acts as a hub for our activity, that also will have new stuff. I'd personally like to see that MBV site gradually switch from leaning on aggregation to being its own thing, and a place where we can put a spotlight on other writers that we like, and can bring in and give a bit of attention.

I guess the best analogy is actually Image Comics, in which a bunch of independent creators formed a coalition of their various studios, but it was all technically part of a bigger umbrella, and there was a mutual infrastructure supporting everyone's endeavors. We all have no input on each other's sites aside from, I guess, Ryan being like "hey, can you code this like that" so it looks okay on the MBV site. It's a bit like herding cats too, we all have really strong ideas about what are sites are, and what they do, and that's not going to change.

I hope MBV is more WildC.A.T.S than Gen13

my bet's on Frank... from what I understand, that guy is ruthless

Makes a lot of sense in a way. If blogging follows the pattern of a lot of other businesses, then following oversaturation (where we probably are now) you find consolidation. That's how a lot of the big players survive.

I like it. It kind of is going back to basics, in that it seems like a good way to get more people (your readers and those of the other contributors) to experience more stuff you want to share (your writing and that of your contributors) and draw even more attention to outside stuff you want to share (music obviously, but also any bloggers or writers you like) which is the basic idea that motivated most of us, nicely consolidated with most of the progress made in the last 4/5 years. Go you.

Flux and StG seem to take all tracks down after 2 weeks or so. chromewaves and lhb are exclusively legal I think.

The text is kind of large.

PITCHFORK AND FADER MEDIA ANNOUNCE STRATEGIC PARTNERSHIP
Leading Voices In Emerging Music And Culture Join Forces To Offer Enhanced Opportunities For Advertisers and Readers

New York, NY: The FADER and Pitchfork, the two leading voices in emerging music and culture, have announced a partnership designed to extend the reach and enhance both brands.

The deal will include integrated advertising and sponsorship opportunities across all properties and platforms, including print, online, festivals, events, and unique content exchanges.

"We are extremely excited to be working with Pitchfork," said Andy Cohn, Group Publisher and Vice President of FADER Media. "We know that the ability to leverage both properties will offer great value to our readers and advertisers alike."

"We love the FADER and are continually impressed with their ability to navigate the ever-changing media landscape in a way that always stays true to their unique vision," said Pitchfork's Publisher/COO Chris Kaskie. "We believe this partnership will compliment both brands and enhance what we can offer our advertising partners, and most importantly, our readers."

I don't get clearances for stuff on Fluxblog and never have. (I know from having had to do stuff elsewhere in which clearances were necessary that I'd never be able to cover what I want if I relied on things being totally legit.) That said, I make an effort to be pretty ethical about things, and not step on toes, etc. And I cover a fair amount of music that was sent to me by labels/artists/publicists, so there are implied permissions there.

I'm going to yayblog this post from buzzgrinder if only for the great graphic

http://www.buzzgrinder.com/2008/music-blog-monopolies/

I think his off the cuff remark about not getting an invite, while just a joke, has some truth to it. While I do hear some condenscension from the MBV folks I also hear some sour grapes from everybody else.

re: buzzgrinder's post about "monopolies":

haha. i'm pretty sure that a blog like Pretty Much Amazing gets more traffic than all of the individual MBV blogs combined. and no offense to PMA, but that's what i'd be worried about if i were a blogger. a blog like his that draws insane traffic (and inevitably, negative attention from labels and RIAA) by posting major label leaks/every single britney spears/the killers/whoever track and charity singles(!) is more of a threat to the rest of blogdom than a handful of awesome writers collectively sharing their work.

Craig, it's "its." Alas, poor writing...

One question: is MBV an exhaustive aggregation of the partner sites? I.e., if I subscribe to MBV's feed, can I unsubscribe from lhb's and cw's without missing anything?

Ah yes, now I see. Stripping all the goddamn BOOK shit out of lhb's posts, ha ha. That could be helpful actually...

What are they ditching of yours, Frank?

Posted by: JakeAh yes, now I see. Stripping all the goddamn BOOK shit out of lhb's posts, ha ha. That could be helpful actually... What are they ditching of yours, Frank?

 

so far, Toronto-specific stuff, which is fine, and various news items and whatnot.  I'm fine with it, I figure people who want the full daily content vomit will still come to me directly

I hate half ass minimalism. If a site suppose to be minimalist (design wise) Then it should do it with discipline.

squashed = jakob nielsen?!?