Apology To Hype Machine: Message to NEW bloggers
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When I Co-Founded the blog site http://boppernation.com, I was extremely excited and passionate...after all it's MUSIC and I LOVE MUSIC. Being new to the whole process there were some natural mistakes I made in the learning process. One of them was an overly EXCITED rush to be a part of the aggregator Hype Machine.
Even though great artist were already contributing to the site and things were just kicking off, I thought that 'we couldn't possibly be a music blog w/o Hype Machine's acceptance.' And with this false fact in mind, I hastily tried to get our blog site on the aggregator and did everything one should NOT do. We applied too early. We sent them an email acknowledging that we applied too early and applied again in the email..still too early ( and worst of all we gathered up our allies on twitter and rallied them into tweeting @hypem to let us in. I just want to apologize to Hype for this..it happened awhile back, but every once in awhile I am reminded of it and it just doesn't sit right.
So my advice to new bloggers:
A.) Be Patient. What's the rush to be a part of the Aggregator. It HELPS get the traffic to the site...but what KEEPS the traffic there is YOUR site. Give yourself at least 3 months of existence before even considering a submission to Hype and when do submit..remember that you created this site to support and promote artist..and to WRITE you created the site out of your love for music..and if you do or don't get into Hype..don't let it change a thing.
B.) Don't DON"T try to 'Tweet Your Way Into an Aggregator.' (this should be obvious..but we made this mistake). As Felix always say, "Don't chase the game, the game will find you." And its true. I mean even if you're doing your thing and you're doing it well...when you're hounding down someone it makes you look desperate and how can they see past that?
C.) It's all about the music, it's about the artist and it's about art. Remember why you got into this, I'm sure it wasn't about the money or free music (there are easier ways to get both) and just continue doing what you love. And remember Anthony, Brandon and other Aggregator hosts...they aren't the enemy if you are rejected, take the rejection as another part of the growing process. Who knows maybe they are ultimately doing you a huge favor by rejecting your site..they are reminding you (and repeating myself- for effect) It's all about teh music, it's about the artist and it's about art.
Thank you Anthony & Hype Machine Team. Respect and Love. And apologies for the amateur approach our site took.
Thank you Brandon & Elbo.ws. The community is amazing and these forums are helpful. -
Good advice. Nice to read a post like this.
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Thank you. I know im stating what should be obvious to people, but we all get lost sometimes. There are lots of great people on this forum though who will help remind people of the important/bigger things.
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"Remember why you got into this, I'm sure it wasn't about the money or free music (there are easier ways to get both) and just continue doing what you love."
This is key, well put.
All good :) -
thanks anothony! Congrats btw read that article that was posted about you!
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Hey Afflicted Wolf,
did they notify you that you weren't expected? If so how long did it take. Still can't get any word on how long it takes to be expected.
Thanks for the advice!
http://thenjunderground.com
-TB -
Thenjunderground if you submitted your blog the correct way..check on the site by going here http://hypem.com/add
and entering in your URL at the bottom and hitting next. (give them a few days, but it doesn't hurt to check this way)
The rejection message looks like this and once you get it, just stick to your guns and do your thing and if you are accepted CONGRATS!
"Bopper Nation (11356) has been reviewed and is currently not included in the Hype Machine.
Thanks for submitting it though." -
Thanks for writing this afflictedwolf.
We had no plans of organizing a twitter campaign, but we did also apply too early. Good to know we're not alone. I think our site may have been around two months old when we applied (which was actually amazing restraint for me). Now that I understand a little better how it works (mostly thanks to help from the music blogging community and pouring through the posts on Elbo.ws),I know we had no business applying that early and feel like an arse. With only around 50 posts under our belt and a two-month stamina track record, we had not proven any ability to make good use of their bandwidth.
In the meantime, we're pretty happy to be part of this forum and are learning all we can. We'll wait until we get it right this time.
Thank you for this advice. -
We're a huge fan of Hype Machine and all they do for the music industry.
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Dammit!!!
Wish i had seen this before sending my application into Elbows and Hype! I havent heard anything back from them but sent my application in a couple of months ago and not heard anything.
It's a strange double edged sword in that I started my site www.kobestarr.com just because I wanted to tell people about the new music (and other stuff) that i'm into - as an extension of what i do already. My friends have always asked me for years about what music is worth listening to and what do i think about this that and the other, who was good live and all that jazz. Starting a blog that includes my favourite new stuff seemed like an obvious step. I love it - i just wish i had more time to post more!
I only really found out about Hype and Elbows when i started designing mine and looking at other music blogs (up until then i had only relied on the radio for new music) and thought "Hey when i get my site on line - it would be cool to get it in these places to see what other music lovers think of what i think and i could influence more people" in the same way i like commenting on other peoples sites.
When I finished my site at the end of last year and looked further into the site design and seeing and asking how other people do things (find new songs and artists, resample/ convert files, get the pictures) did a whole new side of things become apparent. This being artists and PR's sending you promo's and asking if you want to come to gigs and festivals. This is really REALLY cool - trust! BUT its simply not the reason that I write my posts. I have to admit that I have asked the question about getting in touch with PR people on this forum and asked about the best ways to get on elbows and hype and best way to attract readers - but i'm a noob so forgive me.
At the same time - and the other edge of the sword is.........why shouldn't i ask those questions?
Is it THAT easy for those sitting on your high horses, in your ivory castles who have been blogging for eons to forget that people (me for example) are just EXCITED about the fact they have done something that they thought was previously impossible - getting your opinions out there? I thought that only people who wrote for music magazines could do that. What other reason is there? It cant be to make money - you can't make money from blogging! You all must have been in the same position at some point or you still wouldnt be blogging. Im sure that you have seen blogs start and stall within the space of a couple of months where people have run out of ideas and found its not what they thought it was going to be. To be fair that is the kind of site that you want on elbows or hype etc.
BUT you must have wanted to try and promote your blog in anyway that you think is possible? Surely its human nature?? I'd love to get on Hype and Elbows - i'm not going to lie! if i don't its not going to stop me AT ALL. I think that what we should be doing is helping each other more.
Whilst i agree that you shouldnt be listed on Hype and Elbows until you have "proved" yourself, I don't see why you Afflicted Wolff is apologising for his amateur approach........we should be encouraging them and others. At a time when the music industry is in turmoil- artists aren't getting the chances they should and are being ripped off by illegal downloading, album sales are down, X factor and American Idol are being allowed to shape music, good acts are getting axed by record companies as they arent selling as well as The Beatles and Mariah Carey. People like afflicted wolff are surely the good guys!!!
Oh my god - sorry about the ramble/ rant!
In summary -
Older bloggers and aggregators - please dont look down on people because they are new and excited about blogging - help critique and advise! I have seen the lines like "remember why you are blogging/ arent you blogging for the music/ it doesn't matter how many people read your site" sooo many times and whilt they are true they are often just patronising. Is it possible to say if blogs blogs havent been accepted then why? I know that you must have lots of applications but the response "Blog XXX (12345) has been reviewed and is currently not included " doesnt really help! maybe make the time frame more strict. The first line of your blogs we accept rule could read "NO BLOGS THAT HAVE BEEN ONLINE FOR LESS THAN 6 MONTHS WILL BE CONSIDERED" - thats only fair i think.
New bloggers (of which i am one) should try and bide their time but don't be sorry for being enthusiastic - we all need that. Use these forums to start discussions, get ideas, ask questions. Maybe as a guide wait 6 months before you try and register with an aggregator - I KNOW IT'S REALLY HARD - especially when it seems like you are a nobody until you are registered! This 6months more than anything helps you to establish your style, regularity of posts and ask for and take on board ctritiques and tweak things.
Cheers!
K*
PS I would love it if people want to critique my site www.kobestarr.com - what's good bad or indifferent. I have a few ideas but then i'm my own worst critic and have the ability to look through rose tinted glasses at the same time!
PPS @ AfflictedWolff is blogger nation now on Elbows or Hype? -
@kobestarr The time frame does seem pretty clearly stated for hypem (2-3 months), and as far as elbo.ws, it seems like they just do things on their own schedule.
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I know its clear - i just think that its maybe too short a time and people maybe submit really before they know where their blog is going. I thought 6 months gave a better "bedding" time. I think the mentality is a bit different
if its 2-3 months you think "ace i'm going to put this on elbows and hype as soon as the two month is up!"
If its 6 months you think "Thats quite a long time away - we'll just do our thang and see where we're at in 6 months"
Brandon and Antony Hype- are these the kind of things you talk about in your offices? What are your thoughts? I thought that the main reason you would turn down a blog is because they are a bit young and it's not obvious what will happen in the next few months. Do you think a longer "gestation" period would help you out in terms of blog quality and robustness as well as reducing the amount of flash in the pan sites?
what does everyone else think? A longer gestation (4-6 months)would be harsh but fair or simply not required?
K* -
Actually, I think a longer waiting period would be a very good idea. It would give people time to figure out what they were really trying to achieve with their blogs - time to establish their character. It would also weed out a lot of flybynights.
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Just do what you love. Ask yourself if the following question.
"If my blog were never (and I mean ever) get listed on Elbows or Hype, would I still blog about music?"
If not, go fly a kite or become a roller-blading champion.
Most people start a music blog with the intention of being a part of Elbo.ws and HypeM and both are a great medium for gaining more readers.
However, if you fail to keep readers before being listed, how would you ever expect to keep readers once you are listed. -
@OhhSo Famous. Do you think that people REALLY start blogging just to be part of Elbows or Hype? SERIOUS? I can't believe that........
Well if that's the case then you have helped my argument. A 6month waiting period may be the best way of "weeding out the flybynight" to quote songbytoad! If after that time i'm sure that Elbow.s and hype would greet them with open arms!!
K* -
I got lucky with Hypem and got accepted after not too many months and probably less than 50 posts although elbo.ws passed on me I think.
But anyway, since we started getting traffic from Hype I feel way more motivated to posts more often and try and keep the standard high as well. We are aiming for 1 post a day and don't go more than a day without posting anything if it can be helped. Also I feel more justified in asking bands and people for interviews and promo material because I can offer more exposure than before.
What im trying to say is that while you need to be a decent blog that proves itself to be worth of including on an aggregator (and any blog that has kept its game up after 6 months is gonna be worth it's salt), there is also the argument that being on an aggregator will make a blog perform better and so be worth keeping on an aggregator. -
@apocketfullofseeds I completely agree.
I have a few friends that are waited until they were part of Elbo.ws to blog about certain artists. They felt the artist deserved TONS of attention and hoped eyes would be turned on them from Hype and Elbo.ws.
I feel and hope that every blogger regardless of being a part of any aggregator should set the standard high especially when blogging about already established artists. Hold them accountable if they release music that doesn't make the cut, no matter who they are. -
@pocketfull - I agree! I see how the addition to aggregators would defo be a motivator. I would definately love to be added - why would I lie.
At the moment i'm a one man band and my schedule is to do one at least one quality mp3 post a week, with 2 in a week where I hear a couple of really strong songs. I only want to ensure that I post about music that I feel passionate that people should hear and I have been told that that comes out in what I write so I want to keep it that way. I think that may be detrimental to submission to aggregators though as most blogs seem to be posting daily!
If what you guys are saying is true and you can really crank the promoters arm a lot more if you are listed on an aggregators that would be a great way to listen to the new music maybe I could blog more without compromising on quality. I guess that would see me perform better!
I dont agree with not posting about certain until you are part of Elbows or HypeM - what if that takes months? what if it never happens? Do they then write about acts that they think are better than mediocre but not the cream of the crop? The opportunity to tell people about that act could be missed and that would be a REAL shame. Even if your blog is only read by one other person you never know how that butterfly effect may pan out!!
@ Ohh So Famous - I love the line about holding established artists accountable. Brilliant.
I like to apply the acid test of - "If this were the first thing that i heard from artist X would I be moved to buy it or tell people about it?"
@everyone reading this. Do you think 6months is a better aggregator waiting period? I should point out that i'm not there myself yet! I'm prepared to pay my dues!
K* -
365 Days
The one question I always ponder is that, by being listed on say HypeM, for every X number increase in traffic to your blog, how many Y number increase in loyal readers do you really get? It really should not be a scientific analysis but have always been curious about that. Would be cool to see some actual numbers.
Also, if you are only posting 1 to 2 mp3's a week, I would wonder if being on an aggregator makes any difference or not?
I think, may very well be wrong, that a large majority of visitors to aggregators are seeking a specific mp3 or a specific artist. Therefore, once they find that mp3, they click over to your blog, download it and then move on. However, I am sure there is also a decent population that will linger longer on your blog and make a mental note to visit it again especially if you have engaging content. The question I have is what are the percentages involving either situation?
Plus, just concentrating on aggregators, to grow your blog, does not seem to me to be the overall solution. Aggregators are just one piece of the puzzle (many other variables).
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Aye i totally agree just concentrating on aggregators can't be the best way to grow your blog! Thats why i cant believe that people start blogs just so they can be listed on Elbo.ws and HypeM as Tim@ Blue Walrus confirms
In terms of music on the Internet i use aggregators to tap into music that i havent heard of and that people are excited about. I would use last.fm to get music of a certain vibe and use spotify, myspace and their own sites to try and listen to more on the same artist to see if they may me a one hit wonder or may have some longevity....
Seems like i'm definately a small timer in terms of posting frequency!! Hey - i gotta start somewhere! and like i said - I really don't wan't to compromise on the quality! K* -
Yes, believe it, Tim is very correct. There are also blogs that have gotten accepted by the aggregators and take advantage of it. By that, I mean, they purposely post tracks that they know will get in the Top Ten thus giving them what I call "mad traffic". But let's hope it's a fair blogging world out there and that these types of blogs are in the minority. Although, I will say, that over the years I have seen more and more of this type of thing happening.
I think the way you describe using aggregators, last.fm, spotify and myspace is the right approach. Though I am not sure that a fair majority of other folks (non bloggers) follow suit.
Absolutely, focus on the quality, writing ie good content. My colleague and I are constantly and currently going back and forth via email on ways to optimize exposure to our blog without (at least for awhile) the use of aggregators. There really are plenty of other avenues. We have some fairly decent and hopefully unique ideas that I hope we can implement and then develop some metrics to gauge the success of those approaches. The first thing though that we need to do is start posting. That might help just a little bit...
You sound like you have very good ideals and the right attitude and I applaud you for that. Just stick with that and don't compromise those valuable things for some fleeting thrill of "mad traffic" and such unrewarding nonsense.
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I find that visits to your homepage are a decent enough indicator of visits from returning loyal customers (x axis) whereas particularly popular individual posts are nearly always the result of a track that has gone big on aggregators (y axis)
about 15% of our hits are people going direct to our homepage (i.e. not being directed to the blog via Hypem) but I imagine people who have been at this longer than us would have way higher percentage than this (when was the last time you got to MBV Music through Hype?)
and another 5% of people look at our "about the blog" page which is never linked to on anything so perhaps is a decent indicator of people actually wanting to get to know the site more after liking first impressions.
I would roughly estimate that about 10-12% of people looking at the blog click on one of the links we post which maybe ties in with what Hawk said about people hunting mp3s without much interest in the blog it comes from. heartless bastards.
statistics are so cool. -
Who doesnt love stats? I like the thought and the breakdown. Do you have a twitter/facebook/rss link and do you check these to gauge the number of returnees and regulars? Also good to know how that would change if at all after a popular post that goes large on an aggregator?
Cheers for the applause Hawk!! Ill keep doin what i'm doing - its fun and i love it so to me thats all good!
K* -
I agree wholeheartedly. I am
holding back on posts about certain artists till I can be sure they have the possibility to reach people through aggregators. It's part of the reason I started not long ago. I am a lifelong musician who has seen great bands and music go unheard because of geography or timing. -
There is no rule that says you can't link back to old posts, or create a serial posts on single artists. Or do a genre posts that collect old posts as part of new post. Your old post can be used as future material.
I wish people stop thinking a blog post as a "printed" legal document. You can go back, relink, hype up old post, revisit or even re-do old post.
A blog post is not a magazine article, you can infinitely extend its life as far as your imagination can reach. Anything goes as long as it's interesting. You can retry failed old idea in the future ... with improvement of course.
just don't do too many "retro" post and "self confession diary"... gawd... that is worst than posting too many remix, unfunny joke and another boring pet/baby picture.
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I agree with what you're saying. Wish I would have waited somewhat longer with my applications, but I've got more than 3 months going with my blog, and we're picking up a little steam. I think when you're offering exclusive content like columns and reviews rather than downloads or streams, you need the aggregators for helping you promote that content which often goes overlooked. Nobody is doing Google searches for our latest column by their name -- they're looking for specific artists. So the aggregators help by showing this snippet of an interesting column that you would have never known about.
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